Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

How much research have you done for the "RoC" side of the island to balance these findings out then..... Mosques burned to the ground along with homes and lives........I can always do you a painting if you like...Zanangelos are very much in demand at the moment...

Zan, surely that would be your department!

However, if all you can do is make some disparaging remark that is neither backed up by evidence nor facts, I would speculate that you have tried to source such material and found a lack of reciprocated looting.

Whilst I have a soft spot for the architecture of mosques (especially after reading "The Road to Oxiana" . . . cracking!) they remain on Cyprus, for me, a constant reminder that they were erected by invaders as a sign that they had conquered. Unlike the Cypriot heritage, that spans many more centuries and was established as part of a way of life and not as trophies.

You know that wearing only one blinker makes you walk around in circles Whole villages were destroyed my friend and if you missed all that then it is no wonder that you think the way you do.....If you go around your little circle a little faster...Who knows...You could actually kick your self up the arse and get on with the learning process. I think you might just fall into the NIMBY category of knowing what goes on around you.

[phoenix]

Well if either Zan or VP can provide SOME relevant information that would be something . . . remember we're talking heritage here, and post 1974 looting and plunder (not wear and tear or neglect).

[Nikitas]

The picture composed of bits of evidence is eloquent. Guys with names like Dikmen remove the antiquities and religious artifacts which end up in the hands of people with names like Goldberg and are offered for sale at astronomical prices.

Now is there any evidence that anyone with a name like Nikitas took religious items from Mosques in the south and sold them to people like Mrs Goldberg? There is not and I have looked for it.

Sure there was destruction- mutual- of property and churches and Mosques during the various times of conflict. What there is not in the south is the wholesale organized removal of any signs that Turkish Cypriots once lived there. It is not a subtle point that evades understanding. Anyone who drives around the south can see as plain as daylight that there are villages with names like Mala, Kouklia, Zakaki, and can see the Mosques in them and the signs leading to them show their names, in Turkish alphabet. It all comes down to how each side deals with its ethnic complex. In the north the complex mandates obliteration of the past and it is handy to combine that political aim with a bit of lucrative dealing.

But there is one more point that really perplexes me. It is those assholes who profess to be Christian and aware people, who buy a house in a place like Lapithos, in which four humongous churches stand empty and these fuckers never ask themselves why the place has four churches and why do they not hold Sunday services. The Turks I can understand, these so called Christians I cannot.

[zan]

The picture composed of bits of evidence is eloquent. Guys with names like Dikmen remove the antiquities and religious artifacts which end up in the hands of people with names like Goldberg and are offered for sale at astronomical prices.

Now is there any evidence that anyone with a name like Nikitas took religious items from Mosques in the south and sold them to people like Mrs Goldberg? There is not and I have looked for it.

Sure there was destruction- mutual- of property and churches and Mosques during the various times of conflict. What there is not in the south is the wholesale organized removal of any signs that Turkish Cypriots once lived there. It is not a subtle point that evades understanding. Anyone who drives around the south can see as plain as daylight that there are villages with names like Mala, Kouklia, Zakaki, and can see the Mosques in them and the signs leading to them show their names, in Turkish alphabet. It all comes down to how each side deals with its ethnic complex. In the north the complex mandates obliteration of the past and it is handy to combine that political aim with a bit of lucrative dealing.

But there is one more point that really perplexes me. It is those assholes who profess to be Christian and aware people, who buy a house in a place like Lapithos, in which four humongous churches stand empty and these fuckers never ask themselves why the place has four churches and why do they not hold Sunday services. The Turks I can understand, these so called Christians I cannot.

the simple answer to your first question is that, and I am not saying it is right, the "RoC" says it represents the whole island and saying that has tied its own hands as to what it can and can't do. We have no restrictions. I would still like to see the churches preserved.

The second answer is that these people realise that they are in the TRNC/KKTC.

[Viewpoint]

Well if either Zan or VP can provide SOME relevant information that would be something . . . remember we're talking heritage here, and post 1974 looting and plunder (not wear and tear or neglect).

Please define what you mean by wear and tear or neglect? a mosque ransacked and left to deteriorate is no different from a church ransacked and left to natures will. You claim blue murder on churches but ignore the mosques, why is that I wonder?

[phoenix]

Well if either Zan or VP can provide SOME relevant information that would be something . . . remember we're talking heritage here, and post 1974 looting and plunder (not wear and tear or neglect).

Please define what you mean by wear and tear or neglect? a mosque ransacked and left to deteriorate is no different from a church ransacked and left to natures will. You claim blue murder on churches but ignore the mosques, why is that I wonder?

Wear and tear or neglect are due to the Mosques having been left by the people who normally maintain them. There understandably would be little expectation from both sides to say, paint the windows every five years or renew the wiring etc. So naturally they would fall into disrepair through neglect. That would be acceptable since we are in a situation of war / ceasefire.
But what you are confusing and what I am complaining about is when there is deliberate and wilful removal of artifacts from these buildings. What GR! had exposed is the deliberate removal of icons and such like from the churches for the purpose of selling them and making money.
Now you are claiming the same has been done to treasures from the Mosques. So I would appreciate you providing some evidence rather than just making comments.

[zan]

Well if either Zan or VP can provide SOME relevant information that would be something . . . remember we're talking heritage here, and post 1974 looting and plunder (not wear and tear or neglect).

Please define what you mean by wear and tear or neglect? a mosque ransacked and left to deteriorate is no different from a church ransacked and left to natures will. You claim blue murder on churches but ignore the mosques, why is that I wonder?

Wear and tear or neglect are due to the Mosques having been left by the people who normally maintain them. There understandably would be little expectation from both sides to say, paint the windows every five years or renew the wiring etc. So naturally they would fall into disrepair through neglect. That would be acceptable since we are in a situation of war / ceasefire.
But what you are confusing and what I am complaining about is when there is deliberate and wilful removal of artifacts from these buildings. What GR! had exposed is the deliberate removal of icons and such like from the churches for the purpose of selling them and making money.
Now you are claiming the same has been done to treasures from the Mosques. So I would appreciate you providing some evidence rather than just making comments.

wasn't Matsakis arrested for having a couple of house loads of antiques Isn't he still in government along with that other crook Tpap

[halil]

to inform , who are interesting

Every Friday with local time (20:00 pm) there is a program on BRT1 shows last conditions of the our houses , schools , gardens, Mosques,
historic buildings etc....etc...... it will be very interesting program specially to TC's who are living at abroad . u can also watch this program via
www.brtk.net

Denizaksulu,Zan, Birkibrisli you will get chance to see last conditions of your villages and cities from Southern part of the Cyprus.

[zan]

to inform , who are interesting

Every Friday with local time (20:00 pm) there is a program on BRT1 shows last conditions of the our houses , schools , gardens, Mosques,
historic buildings etc....etc...... it will be very interesting program specially to TC's who are living at abroad . u can also watch this program via
www.brtk.net

Denizaksulu,Zan, Birkibrisli you will get chance to see last conditions of your villages and cities from Southern part of the Cyprus.

Thanks Halil. I will definitely watch it.

[phoenix]

Well if either Zan or VP can provide SOME relevant information that would be something . . . remember we're talking heritage here, and post 1974 looting and plunder (not wear and tear or neglect).

Please define what you mean by wear and tear or neglect? a mosque ransacked and left to deteriorate is no different from a church ransacked and left to natures will. You claim blue murder on churches but ignore the mosques, why is that I wonder?

Wear and tear or neglect are due to the Mosques having been left by the people who normally maintain them. There understandably would be little expectation from both sides to say, paint the windows every five years or renew the wiring etc. So naturally they would fall into disrepair through neglect. That would be acceptable since we are in a situation of war / ceasefire.
But what you are confusing and what I am complaining about is when there is deliberate and wilful removal of artifacts from these buildings. What GR! had exposed is the deliberate removal of icons and such like from the churches for the purpose of selling them and making money.
Now you are claiming the same has been done to treasures from the Mosques. So I would appreciate you providing some evidence rather than just making comments.

wasn't Matsakis arrested for having a couple of house loads of antiques Isn't he still in government along with that other crook Tpap

If you are referring to the following . . .

http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/default. ... 1&heading=

. . . then it's just charges which he denies, so innocent until proven guilty is the verdict.