Cyprus-Forum.com

[Eric dayi]

Which Reality

Niyazi Kizilyurek

A comparison of Venizelos, Makarios and Papadopoulos

The words of Tassos Papadopoulos in his last week’s press conference and what his spokesperson Vassilis Palmas had claimed in his written announcement before him about Papadopoulos that “He is a politician coming from the Venizelos school” caused a need to take a closer look to the issue. In order to be able to debate on the issue healthily we first need to define what we think that political reality is. My guide in this issue is the evaluation of the famous historian E.H. Carr, according to which realism in politics is to try and achieve the most possible, most achievable, most reachable and most operative option within the given circumstances – in which we can include the internal and external factors – and within the universal principles staying away from abstract rightfulness.


Greek State Politician Elefteros Venizelos conducted his political affairs with such an approach which is why he has assumed a ‘realistic politician’ status in history. Venizelos tried to advance the modern Greek State’s official ideology of Megalo Idea to the furthest he could, discontinued the irredentist policies (favouring the acquisition of property) in 1922 when the armies of Mustafa Kemal defeated the Greek army and took on a new approach of getting closer with Turkey; so much that he suggested Mustafa Kemal be announced as one of the 1930 Nobel Peace Laureates.
We can see that Venizelos had a similar approach towards Cyprus and its Enosis. When in 1915 Britain suggested that Greece take its place beside the Serbians in its war against Bulgaria in exchange for Cyprus, Venizelos supported the suggestion with enthusiasm. The Aleksandros Zaimi government in power during the period rejected the offer due to their closeness with Germany. However when circumstances changed the same Venizelos made severe criticism towards the protesters who claimed “Enosis and only Enosis” in 1931 Cyprus commotion during his Prime Ministry and stated that “under the given circumstances Enosis was impossible” and the best thing to be done could be to stay within the self-sovereign system offered by the British in the meantime get along with the Turkish Cypriot community. The Militarist Greeks of his time had accused him for being “in the same team as the slave-minded Royalty jut like the times of the Ottoman Empire.”


The administrators of the Greek Cypriot community closed their ears to Venizelos’ warnings, disregarding him and continued to say “Enosis and only Enosis.” They rejected the self-sovereign suggestions through 1947-48 without even negotiating. Makarios III, who took over as Archbishop in 1949, disregarded the rejections of the Turkish Cypriots, the increasing reaction of Turkey against Enosis and the warning of the Greek Politicians who were saying “now is not the time for Enosis.” He rejected the suggestions of the British and especially British Commissioner Harding’s suggestion with a strong dogmatic approach and physically forced Greece towards Enosis policies. In 1958 when the island was under a threat of ‘being divided to 3’ he made a manoeuvre almost thought to be realistic and accepted the establishment of the Independent Republic of Cyprus. However, it was not long before he turned back to his dogmatic status and beliefs giving up on the realistic manoeuvre and started ‘messing’ up the Zurich and London agreements without hesitation; despite the internationally declared warnings by guarantor countries such as Greece and Turkey ...


During the years 1964-1968 Makarios tried all he could to achieve Enosis and he finally saw that this could not be achieved. Then he took a new step in politics and started using a phrase similar to that of Venizelos “Efikton/Efkteon” which showed a difference between the ‘wanted’ and the ‘possible’ and called Greek Cypriot community to get hold of the Republic of Cyprus. This was a milestone in the political history of the Greek Cypriot Community. The Enosis motto which had been the major ideal of the 20th century and a wave that activated all the levels in the Greek Cypriot community was suddenly off the political agenda and was burned into people’s hearts. The notion of giving life to the independent Republic of Cyprus was more important. Although late, Makarios had realised the impossibility of Enosis and changed his policies and took on a ‘Venizelos style’ search for realism; of course this is a debate topic for some other time. Let’s look into the issue a little more.


When Makarios got into livening the Republic of Cyprus rather than Enosis in 1968 thinking about ‘the possible’ rather than the ‘wished’ he did not pursue policies that included the Turkish Cypriot community at all. On the contrary, he did all he could to announce the Turkish Cypriots as an ethnic minority group rather than giving them the status of a politically equal community. He put pressure on the Turkish Cypriot community to adjust the Zurich and London agreements accordingly; on the other hand he complained and rejected systematically all possible “settlement and peace” suggestion saying they were “poor solutions.” In short he took hold of the Republic of Cyprus and started to play with it, which meant either to settle the problem the way he wanted or keep on with the current status. However both options were not possible to keep so that by 1974 both options in front of Makarios were history; things were changing.

http://www.observercyprus.com/observer/ ... px?id=2315

In reality, things did change, the island was partitioned and peace achieved after 11 years of GCs attempting to genocide us Turkish Cypriots
for GCs ENOSIS dream.

Anyway, now you know where and why this "ethnic minority" idea came from and why they are still insisting on it.

[utu]

Well Eric, The Greeks point to the fact that they are the numeric majority on the island, and democracy is supposed to be rule by the majority. Ergo, what they say goes. It's a pity that the designers of that brilliant political concept - democracy - didn't take into account a majority that had a historic disdain for a specific minority...

[Piratis]

democracy - didn't take into account a majority that had a historic disdain for a specific minority

Lets see: We have suffered and been oppressed by the Turks (the minority in this island) for 340 out of the 436 years they exist on our island - including the last 33 years which they occupy the northern part of our country.

All we ever did (and do) was to fight for our freedom from our rulers. You call that "disdain"?

Had democracy been applied before the 60s and allowed the Cypriots to choose what they wanted for their own island via a referendum, or at least had the compromise of independence that Makarios had proposed been allowed to be a true independence with Cypriots democratically choosing their own constitution, then non of what followed would happen.

The problem in Cyprus is exactly that some foreigners are using the TC minority to stop Cypriots from exerting their self-determination and be free in their island. Beyond that, the TC minority is no different than any other minority in the world, nor is Cyprus the only example that had some conflict between the various ethnic groups. (example: USA with Blacks and Whites)

Democracy takes into account everything.

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

So when are Cypriots going to be liberated from their foreign oppressors and be allowed to live free and democratically rule their own land? What is certain is that we will never stop fighting for what is right and just.

[Nikitas]

UTU,

When it comes to the mistreatment of minorities the Turkish Cypriot community on Cyprus is no laggard! Look how it treated the Armenians in 1964, then ALL minorities in the northern part of Cyprus after gaining control.

Compared to the lives of Maronites, Gypsies and the Greeks of Karpasia, the lives of Turkish Cypriots between 1968 and 1974 were much better, although not at all acceptable. In short the power play on the island pervades both communities and there are hidden agendas that promote the use of propaganda while they do some very cynical things. So lets cut out this innocent attitude that both sides often use.

To this day no one on this forum has explained how a minority in any society can be an equal partner. I dont mean the ideology, I mean the nuts and bolts of how a minority becomes an equal to the majority without diminishing the basic rule of one man one vote.

[Kifeas]

In reality, things did change, the island was partitioned and peace achieved after 11 years of GCs attempting to genocide us Turkish Cypriots
for GCs ENOSIS dream.

Anyway, now you know where and why this "ethnic minority" idea came from and why they are still insisting on it.

As long as there are dirty nationalist TCs and Turks of your kind that go around making fictitious and despicable claims that the GCs were attempting to genocide you -more so for 11 years (1963-1974,) and as long as the majority of the rest of TCs seat back and listen to your lies without reacting and confronting you for the provocative, insulting and vilifying nature of your claims against the GC community; there is no chance in a million that we will ever have a solution, peace and reconciliation in this country; and the end result will not be your so called independence through partition, but in fact your real and actual this time self-inflicted disappearance from Cyprus, as a TC community!

[Viewpoint]

In reality, things did change, the island was partitioned and peace achieved after 11 years of GCs attempting to genocide us Turkish Cypriots
for GCs ENOSIS dream.

Anyway, now you know where and why this "ethnic minority" idea came from and why they are still insisting on it.

As long as there are dirty nationalist TCs and Turks of your kind that go around making fictitious and despicable claims that the GCs were attempting to genocide you -more so for 11 years (1963-1974,) and as long as the majority of the rest of TCs seat back and listen to your lies without reacting and confronting you for the provocative, insulting and vilifying nature of your claims against the GC community; there is no chance in a million that we will ever have a solution, peace and reconciliation in this country; and the end result will not be your so called independence through partition, but in fact your real and actual this time self-inflicted disappearance from Cyprus, as a TC community!

Isnt that our problem Kifeas? why are you so concerned? you should be celebrating but hey what will there be in our place? Turks

[Nikitas]

This genociding thing sometimes gets a bit much. Back in the late 60s, a time of economic boom for Cyprus, I asked a cousin who works at the Co-op bank how many Turkish Cypriots applied for loans. The response was none. Then I asked a Turkish Cypriot businessman in London why he did not apply to the Co-op for a loan and his answer was "I don't want to get shot" meaning shot by TMT people. The slogan back then was "from Turk to Turk" and the isolation of the Turkish community was as much work of the TMT as anyone else's.

So do us all a favor and stop this genocide nonsense. We all know what was going on, the Greek side wanted the upper hand, the Turkish side wanted to prevent it, and that went as far as to preventing any cooperation that would show the Greek side as the dominant side. It was not an ideal state of affairs but it was not genocide by any stretch of the imagination. There were Turkish Cypriots who were shot and killed by the TMT for disobeying orders, if you people want the names and dates I will provide the links, but the incidents are well known you all know them.

[Viewpoint]

This genociding thing sometimes gets a bit much. Back in the late 60s, a time of economic boom for Cyprus, I asked a cousin who works at the Co-op bank how many Turkish Cypriots applied for loans. The response was none. Then I asked a Turkish Cypriot businessman in London why he did not apply to the Co-op for a loan and his answer was "I don't want to get shot" meaning shot by TMT people. The slogan back then was "from Turk to Turk" and the isolation of the Turkish community was as much work of the TMT as anyone else's.

So do us all a favor and stop this genocide nonsense. We all know what was going on, the Greek side wanted the upper hand, the Turkish side wanted to prevent it, and that went as far as to preventing any cooperation that would show the Greek side as the dominant side. It was not an ideal state of affairs but it was not genocide by any stretch of the imagination. There were Turkish Cypriots who were shot and killed by the TMT for disobeying orders, if you people want the names and dates I will provide the links, but the incidents are well known you all know them.

Do you know samson claimed ie would only take 1 hour 45 minutes to rid the island ıf the TCs and have you seen the mass graves of innocent TCs being buried alive like it was a move to clean up the TC community so that Gc could have a clear path to enosis? Dont close your eyes or make excuses for what went on back then, the GCs would not allow Tcs to progress and would put obstacles in their way at every turn even asking TC businessmen to take a GC partners or otherwise they would not get planning permission or official offices to rubber stamp the business concerns.

[Get Real!]

This genociding thing sometimes gets a bit much. Back in the late 60s, a time of economic boom for Cyprus, I asked a cousin who works at the Co-op bank how many Turkish Cypriots applied for loans. The response was none. Then I asked a Turkish Cypriot businessman in London why he did not apply to the Co-op for a loan and his answer was "I don't want to get shot" meaning shot by TMT people. The slogan back then was "from Turk to Turk" and the isolation of the Turkish community was as much work of the TMT as anyone else's.

So do us all a favor and stop this genocide nonsense. We all know what was going on, the Greek side wanted the upper hand, the Turkish side wanted to prevent it, and that went as far as to preventing any cooperation that would show the Greek side as the dominant side. It was not an ideal state of affairs but it was not genocide by any stretch of the imagination. There were Turkish Cypriots who were shot and killed by the TMT for disobeying orders, if you people want the names and dates I will provide the links, but the incidents are well known you all know them.

That's a very well known fact and you can hear it from the Secretary-General of the United Nations in 1965 who described the policy of the Turkish Cypriot leaders in this way:

"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"(S/6426)

* UN document S/6426 is not on the Internet but available upon request.

Regards, GR.

[zan]

This genociding thing sometimes gets a bit much. Back in the late 60s, a time of economic boom for Cyprus, I asked a cousin who works at the Co-op bank how many Turkish Cypriots applied for loans. The response was none. Then I asked a Turkish Cypriot businessman in London why he did not apply to the Co-op for a loan and his answer was "I don't want to get shot" meaning shot by TMT people. The slogan back then was "from Turk to Turk" and the isolation of the Turkish community was as much work of the TMT as anyone else's.

So do us all a favor and stop this genocide nonsense. We all know what was going on, the Greek side wanted the upper hand, the Turkish side wanted to prevent it, and that went as far as to preventing any cooperation that would show the Greek side as the dominant side. It was not an ideal state of affairs but it was not genocide by any stretch of the imagination. There were Turkish Cypriots who were shot and killed by the TMT for disobeying orders, if you people want the names and dates I will provide the links, but the incidents are well known you all know them.

Yep! Caught between a rock and a hard place.....Well the TMT and truck loads of Greeks killing at random.......And the Co-Op still trying to lend them money............