So are you actually comparing the Turkic people from that area/era with us?
I still am not sure where exactly you are going with all this jargon...
A DNA study
by phoenix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:01 pm
shahmaran wrote:So are you actually comparing the Turkic people from that area/era with us?
I still am not sure where exactly you are going with all this jargon...
If you have another look it says "Turkish population".
Just gathering facts from various sources then we can formulate some conclusions. . .
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by phoenix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:05 pm
This one is REALLY interesting and is from "Londra Toplum Postasi" . . . which I think is Turkish.
SCIENCE PROVES NATIONS ARE A MYTH
Alkan CHAGLAR
Yazarın tüm yazılarını görüntüle
29 Haziran 2007, Cuma Yorum Yaz Yazdır Arkadaşına Gönder
A new scientific project that analyses DNA is challenging the ‘sacredness’ of nationalism by revealing an ancient and at the same time modern day reality. Tens of thousands around the world are taking the National Genographic Test to better understand their ancestors and the migratory route they took. But beware the answers that emerge from the DNA are not as black and white as many might have preferred, in fact it is rather complicated requiring the stretching of the mind to new ways of thinking.
NATIONAL GENOGRAPHIC PROJECT
Recent advances in science are eliminating the rather dirty job of excavating graves, while developing a new cleaner “Genetic Archaeology” that can now determine where one’s ancestors migrated from through one’s DNA. The worldwide “National Genographic Project”, pioneered by American Geneticist Dr Spencer Wells, according to the National Geographic Magazine which supports it aims to: “map the patterns of dispersal and change of human DNA across the Earth and develop an accurate picture of ancestral human migration patterns by analyzing genetic markers — mutations transmitted from generation to generation.” With y-dna tests for males and mtdna tests for females, the five minute test done by collecting vital DNA with a mouth swab can map out your ancestry as far back as 60,000 years.
WHY I TOOK THE TEST?
I decided to take the test for two reasons, first as somebody with an avid interest in history and who yearns to identify where my own personal ancestors travelled from, and second to take part in a unique and exciting new global project that is easy to follow. However, my test could only analyze DNA passed down from my father and a through a long line of fathers and father’s fathers. Equally, for women the test can only investigate their mitochondrial lineage. Not sure of the end result, I awaited patiently for two months as my DNA sample was sent to the medical laboratory at Arizona University in the United States.
When I spoke of the project, a surprising number of people, particularly those from my own diasporic Cypriot community expressed an interest in participating, hoping it would shed some light on their origins helping them find certainty to help deal with their identity crisis. Looking for a sense of belonging and a single answer to the complex issue of identity many followed me by taking the test. Quite predictably those with nationalist sympathies stood well away from the test, lest it castes doubt on their ‘ethnic purity.’
MANKIND IS CLOSER THAN WE THINK
When the results were ready, I logged on anxiously with my unique pin number and read through a set of mysterious codes, in my case J2 M172. What I discovered was not that I belonged a particular nation, either Turkish or Greek, but how I fit into the wider global community. Carriers of J2 M172 are distributed all over the world, from Spain where 10% of people belong to the haplogroup, to Tunisia, Greece, Iran and Turkey where it is common in about 20% of the population, and in Lebanon where it is present in around 47% of the population. The results had no clear answers as I would have preferred, or perhaps the problem was my expectations?
Revealing the migratory route of my ancestors that began in the Fertile Crescent the test linked me to the 7000 BC Neolithic civilisation, the world’s first agriculturalists. This civilisation (that was neither Greek nor Turkish) invented crop farming. To my surprise the results proved that I shared a more precious item with millions of other carriers of J2 M172 - a common single male ancestor some 17,000 years ago who lived somewhere in he Middle East.
But my curiosity did not end there, I persuaded my mother after much consideration of also taking the test to build a better picture of our family ancestry. After months of waiting it was revealed that my mitochondrial lineage was haplogroup K, most prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews, Georgians, Iranians, Armenians, and those living at high altitudes in the Tyrol Mountains of Austria, Liechtenstein, and Italy, as well as Albania, Czech Republic and Ötzi the Ice Man. What possible connection do all these diverse groups have with one another is a mystery to me, but it proves that my ancestors travelled far and wide across present day national borders settling where they could feel safe and where they could find food and water – it seems little has changed today.
NO SUCH THING AS ‘PURE BLOOD’
However, above all for me the results challenged the argument that all human beings are divided or belong to ‘nation’ whose roots are sacred and divinely chosen. In deed there is no ‘chosen people’ as many nationalists claim. Contradicting half a century of tales by those nationalists claiming all Turkish Cypriots like Turks originate from the Turkic hordes of Central Asia, or that we have “Turkish blood,” the results demonstrate that human beings are more alike than different and all share a 60,000 year old common male East African ancestor.
Without censorship or lies, the results show a more real, where human beings constantly migrate, out of necessity of food and water, from natural disasters or tribal wars to settle and adapt to new adopted environments, each time transforming when they come into contact with other cultures, languages and religions along the way. Today the process continues added by advances in travel, so doubtless we can expect new civilisations, languages and religions to follow.
The results equally demolish the tale of possessing ‘pure blood,’ by revealing our connection to civilisations that are often thousands of miles away or who we class as inferior or as ‘enemies.’ To illustrate this point, recent DNA results destroyed established theories by white supremacists that the Vikings of Scandinavia were ‘pure,’ blond and blue-eyed. Genetic archaeologists examining a Viking burial off the southern coast of Sweden found that no less than half of the Vikings whose DNA was tested by their teeth had a Central Asian parent, perfectly plausible considering the fact that the Vikings traded along the Vistula River in Russia and therefore would have come into contact with Mongols.
BROTHERS AND SISTERS
With haplogroups prevalent in small numbers all over the world, with some genetic markers appearing in all countries, the Genographic project is helping to reveal certain truths in our understanding of our own history and our relationship with other human beings, proving that we are in fact closer than we think. Challenging banal nationalist theories that have pushed men to war and to their deaths for centuries, DNA results, contradict established notions of nationalism that claim one community is more superior than another, while proving that all human beings are alike in their common quest for survival. As human beings today continue to migrate for survival, mix, and adapt, a more complex picture will be formed again and again. New civilisations will be formed and faced with unstoppable transformation they will die like all things in life. But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
SCIENCE PROVES NATIONS ARE A MYTH
Alkan CHAGLAR
Yazarın tüm yazılarını görüntüle
29 Haziran 2007, Cuma Yorum Yaz Yazdır Arkadaşına Gönder
A new scientific project that analyses DNA is challenging the ‘sacredness’ of nationalism by revealing an ancient and at the same time modern day reality. Tens of thousands around the world are taking the National Genographic Test to better understand their ancestors and the migratory route they took. But beware the answers that emerge from the DNA are not as black and white as many might have preferred, in fact it is rather complicated requiring the stretching of the mind to new ways of thinking.
NATIONAL GENOGRAPHIC PROJECT
Recent advances in science are eliminating the rather dirty job of excavating graves, while developing a new cleaner “Genetic Archaeology” that can now determine where one’s ancestors migrated from through one’s DNA. The worldwide “National Genographic Project”, pioneered by American Geneticist Dr Spencer Wells, according to the National Geographic Magazine which supports it aims to: “map the patterns of dispersal and change of human DNA across the Earth and develop an accurate picture of ancestral human migration patterns by analyzing genetic markers — mutations transmitted from generation to generation.” With y-dna tests for males and mtdna tests for females, the five minute test done by collecting vital DNA with a mouth swab can map out your ancestry as far back as 60,000 years.
WHY I TOOK THE TEST?
I decided to take the test for two reasons, first as somebody with an avid interest in history and who yearns to identify where my own personal ancestors travelled from, and second to take part in a unique and exciting new global project that is easy to follow. However, my test could only analyze DNA passed down from my father and a through a long line of fathers and father’s fathers. Equally, for women the test can only investigate their mitochondrial lineage. Not sure of the end result, I awaited patiently for two months as my DNA sample was sent to the medical laboratory at Arizona University in the United States.
When I spoke of the project, a surprising number of people, particularly those from my own diasporic Cypriot community expressed an interest in participating, hoping it would shed some light on their origins helping them find certainty to help deal with their identity crisis. Looking for a sense of belonging and a single answer to the complex issue of identity many followed me by taking the test. Quite predictably those with nationalist sympathies stood well away from the test, lest it castes doubt on their ‘ethnic purity.’
MANKIND IS CLOSER THAN WE THINK
When the results were ready, I logged on anxiously with my unique pin number and read through a set of mysterious codes, in my case J2 M172. What I discovered was not that I belonged a particular nation, either Turkish or Greek, but how I fit into the wider global community. Carriers of J2 M172 are distributed all over the world, from Spain where 10% of people belong to the haplogroup, to Tunisia, Greece, Iran and Turkey where it is common in about 20% of the population, and in Lebanon where it is present in around 47% of the population. The results had no clear answers as I would have preferred, or perhaps the problem was my expectations?
Revealing the migratory route of my ancestors that began in the Fertile Crescent the test linked me to the 7000 BC Neolithic civilisation, the world’s first agriculturalists. This civilisation (that was neither Greek nor Turkish) invented crop farming. To my surprise the results proved that I shared a more precious item with millions of other carriers of J2 M172 - a common single male ancestor some 17,000 years ago who lived somewhere in he Middle East.
But my curiosity did not end there, I persuaded my mother after much consideration of also taking the test to build a better picture of our family ancestry. After months of waiting it was revealed that my mitochondrial lineage was haplogroup K, most prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews, Georgians, Iranians, Armenians, and those living at high altitudes in the Tyrol Mountains of Austria, Liechtenstein, and Italy, as well as Albania, Czech Republic and Ötzi the Ice Man. What possible connection do all these diverse groups have with one another is a mystery to me, but it proves that my ancestors travelled far and wide across present day national borders settling where they could feel safe and where they could find food and water – it seems little has changed today.
NO SUCH THING AS ‘PURE BLOOD’
However, above all for me the results challenged the argument that all human beings are divided or belong to ‘nation’ whose roots are sacred and divinely chosen. In deed there is no ‘chosen people’ as many nationalists claim. Contradicting half a century of tales by those nationalists claiming all Turkish Cypriots like Turks originate from the Turkic hordes of Central Asia, or that we have “Turkish blood,” the results demonstrate that human beings are more alike than different and all share a 60,000 year old common male East African ancestor.
Without censorship or lies, the results show a more real, where human beings constantly migrate, out of necessity of food and water, from natural disasters or tribal wars to settle and adapt to new adopted environments, each time transforming when they come into contact with other cultures, languages and religions along the way. Today the process continues added by advances in travel, so doubtless we can expect new civilisations, languages and religions to follow.
The results equally demolish the tale of possessing ‘pure blood,’ by revealing our connection to civilisations that are often thousands of miles away or who we class as inferior or as ‘enemies.’ To illustrate this point, recent DNA results destroyed established theories by white supremacists that the Vikings of Scandinavia were ‘pure,’ blond and blue-eyed. Genetic archaeologists examining a Viking burial off the southern coast of Sweden found that no less than half of the Vikings whose DNA was tested by their teeth had a Central Asian parent, perfectly plausible considering the fact that the Vikings traded along the Vistula River in Russia and therefore would have come into contact with Mongols.
BROTHERS AND SISTERS
With haplogroups prevalent in small numbers all over the world, with some genetic markers appearing in all countries, the Genographic project is helping to reveal certain truths in our understanding of our own history and our relationship with other human beings, proving that we are in fact closer than we think. Challenging banal nationalist theories that have pushed men to war and to their deaths for centuries, DNA results, contradict established notions of nationalism that claim one community is more superior than another, while proving that all human beings are alike in their common quest for survival. As human beings today continue to migrate for survival, mix, and adapt, a more complex picture will be formed again and again. New civilisations will be formed and faced with unstoppable transformation they will die like all things in life. But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
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by shahmaran » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:53 pm
phoenix wrote:shahmaran wrote:So are you actually comparing the Turkic people from that area/era with us?
I still am not sure where exactly you are going with all this jargon...
If you have another look it says "Turkish population".
Just gathering facts from various sources then we can formulate some conclusions. . .
Either way, genetics and evolution does not really work in politics, one person who i can think of that tried it was Hitler, so i hope that is not where this is going
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by phoenix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:55 pm
shahmaran wrote:phoenix wrote:shahmaran wrote:So are you actually comparing the Turkic people from that area/era with us?
I still am not sure where exactly you are going with all this jargon...
If you have another look it says "Turkish population".
Just gathering facts from various sources then we can formulate some conclusions. . .
Either way, genetics and evolution does not really work in politics, one person who i can think of that tried it was Hitler, so i hope that is not where this is going
Another was Denktash . . . .
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by Get Real! » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:04 pm
phoenix wrote:But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
Dr Spencer omits an important bit of detail about human beings... that they have an OVERWHELMING tendency to form and belong to groups starting with the smallest and most basic called a FAMILY and progressing right through to a whole range of larger and more complex institutions such as SCHOOL, CHURCH, ARMY, SPORTS CLUB, SUBURB, CITY, COUNTRY, NATION, and finally CONTINENT.
Going back to Dr Spencer, nationalism (NATION) is just one of the many groups we form and join and the only reason why the largest possible group called EARTH hasn't become very popular yet is because so far there hasn't been any outside threat from another planet but if and when that time comes Earthlings will probably unite to fight the new enemy and "internal" disputes will most likely take second place.
Regards, GR.
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Get Real! - Forum Addict
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by phoenix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:12 pm
Get Real! wrote:phoenix wrote:But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
Dr Spencer omits an important bit of detail about human beings... that they have an OVERWHELMING tendency to form and belong to groups starting with the smallest and most basic called a FAMILY and progressing right through to a whole range of larger and more complex institutions such as SCHOOL, CHURCH, ARMY, SPORTS CLUB, SUBURB, CITY, COUNTRY, NATION, and finally CONTINENT.
Going back to Dr Spencer, nationalism (NATION) is just one of the many groups we form and join and the only reason why the largest possible group called EARTH hasn't become very popular yet is because so far there hasn't been any outside threat from another planet but if and when that time comes Earthlings will probably unite to fight the new enemy and "internal" disputes will most likely take second place.
Regards, GR.
Yeah, this is KIN-selection . . . . that's exactly how I see the constant need to belong and identify oneself with "related" people.
The above article is a bit Utopian . . . but lends itself to re-dressing the balance for those who may be worried they may not like being pigeonholed.
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by zan » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 pm
Get Real! wrote:phoenix wrote:But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
Dr Spencer omits an important bit of detail about human beings... that they have an OVERWHELMING tendency to form and belong to groups starting with the smallest and most basic called a FAMILY and progressing right through to a whole range of larger and more complex institutions such as SCHOOL, CHURCH, ARMY, SPORTS CLUB, SUBURB, CITY, COUNTRY, NATION, and finally CONTINENT.
Going back to Dr Spencer, nationalism (NATION) is just one of the many groups we form and join and the only reason why the largest possible group called EARTH hasn't become very popular yet is because so far there hasn't been any outside threat from another planet but if and when that time comes Earthlings will probably unite to fight the new enemy and "internal" disputes will most likely take second place.
Regards, GR.
Wow! How long and how much money was wasted on that brilliant bit of insight into how animals live
Maybe as long as you are taking to make your point.....
We are Human.
We are human and Turkish
We are human and Turkish Cypriot
We are human and Turkish Cypriot and we flock together
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by phoenix » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:32 pm
zan wrote:Get Real! wrote:phoenix wrote:But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
Dr Spencer omits an important bit of detail about human beings... that they have an OVERWHELMING tendency to form and belong to groups starting with the smallest and most basic called a FAMILY and progressing right through to a whole range of larger and more complex institutions such as SCHOOL, CHURCH, ARMY, SPORTS CLUB, SUBURB, CITY, COUNTRY, NATION, and finally CONTINENT.
Going back to Dr Spencer, nationalism (NATION) is just one of the many groups we form and join and the only reason why the largest possible group called EARTH hasn't become very popular yet is because so far there hasn't been any outside threat from another planet but if and when that time comes Earthlings will probably unite to fight the new enemy and "internal" disputes will most likely take second place.
Regards, GR.
Wow! How long and how much money was wasted on that brilliant bit of insight into how animals live
We are Human.
We are human and Turkish
We are human and Turkish Cypriot
We are human and Turkish Cypriot and we flock together
You may find the following interesting then:
1. Uzun M, Gutierrez-Gil B, Arranz JJ, San Primitivo F, Saatci M, Kaya M, Bayon Y.
Related Articles, Links
Genetic relationships among Turkish sheep.
Genet Sel Evol. 2006 Sep-Oct;38(5):513-24. Epub 2006 Sep 6.
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by zan » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:36 pm
phoenix wrote:zan wrote:Get Real! wrote:phoenix wrote:But one fact is undeniable, as Dr Spencer Wells claims we are all members of one family, the human race.
Dr Spencer omits an important bit of detail about human beings... that they have an OVERWHELMING tendency to form and belong to groups starting with the smallest and most basic called a FAMILY and progressing right through to a whole range of larger and more complex institutions such as SCHOOL, CHURCH, ARMY, SPORTS CLUB, SUBURB, CITY, COUNTRY, NATION, and finally CONTINENT.
Going back to Dr Spencer, nationalism (NATION) is just one of the many groups we form and join and the only reason why the largest possible group called EARTH hasn't become very popular yet is because so far there hasn't been any outside threat from another planet but if and when that time comes Earthlings will probably unite to fight the new enemy and "internal" disputes will most likely take second place.
Regards, GR.
Wow! How long and how much money was wasted on that brilliant bit of insight into how animals live
We are Human.
We are human and Turkish
We are human and Turkish Cypriot
We are human and Turkish Cypriot and we flock together
You may find the following interesting then:
1. Uzun M, Gutierrez-Gil B, Arranz JJ, San Primitivo F, Saatci M, Kaya M, Bayon Y.
Related Articles, Links
Genetic relationships among Turkish sheep.
Genet Sel Evol. 2006 Sep-Oct;38(5):513-24. Epub 2006 Sep 6.
I thought you liked words GR????? Flock in the biblical sense is what I meant but then you have been described as a parrot...It takes imagination to use words poetically......So Flock off
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