Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

In case you don't suffer from monochromatism, you figure it out from the coloured parts of your own quotes.

You seemingly base your theory on interracial marriages and/or intercourse but fail to take into consideration that the number of people who DID NOT engage in interracial marriages and/or intercourse were FAR GREATER or there wouldn’t be any segregated ethnic groups today and instead we would have just CYPRIOTS, but that is obviously not the case. The ethnic groups obviously managed to stay VERY separated to this day.

[Get Real!]

Do you know how many generations have past from 1571 GR? Considering each generation changes every 25 years it is almost 18 generations.

Sure, but the Ottoman rule lasted until 1878. Back in the 50s when the intercommunal conflict started that was just 3 generations earlier, not 18. Not that long, when you think that TCs keep talking about what happened over 4 decades ago and they want to use their version of those events to eternally convict us. If it was up to them do you have any doubt that they would keep our land for 100s of years, and always go back centuries to blame us about what happened according to their version of history in some decade in the very distant past?

We voted yes to a plan of unification your leader did nothing to make sure that that plan was acceptable..He sabotaged the whole thing......Ask him your stupid questions...

Quit farting fairytales Zan! There was a DEMOCRATIC referendum and the damn thing was REJECTED… end of story. Had stupid Turkey not been so selfish in their demands perhaps it might have been accepted but then again this is the outcome Turkey wanted anyway so in retrospect it all makes sense now.

[free_cyprus]

i have read some shit in my life but the shit i read regarding cyprus identity and what you lot write in here takes the fecking cake, after 3000 years of invations and rapes we have all emearged as greeks and turks only an imbesil will think along those lines and we sure seem to produce them in cyprus in abundance from the leaders all the way down to the peheasent who cannot read and write that works the farm

fecking joke what waste of brains what a waste of intelligance

[Pyrpolizer]

Do you know how many generations have past from 1571 GR? Considering each generation changes every 25 years it is almost 18 generations.

Sure, but the Ottoman rule lasted until 1878. Back in the 50s when the intercommunal conflict started that was just 3 generations earlier, not 18. Not that long, when you think that TCs keep talking about what happened over 4 decades ago and they want to use their version of those events to eternally convict us. If it was up to them do you have any doubt that they would keep our land for 100s of years, and always go back centuries to blame us about what happened according to their version of history in some decade in the very distant past?

I was simply answering to the fact that the TC community as we know it today started getting formed so long ago, that the question of trying to specify the WHEN in a purely timing co-relation is totally meaningless for todays purposes.Hence the reason I used the "father of the father breakdown".

So nothing to do with what you are saying.

[Get Real!]

i have read some shit in my life but the shit i read regarding cyprus identity and what you lot write in here takes the fecking cake, after 3000 years of invations and rapes we have all emearged as greeks and turks only an imbesil will think along those lines and we sure seem to produce them in cyprus in abundance from the leaders all the way down to the peheasent who cannot read and write that works the farm

fecking joke what waste of brains what a waste of intelligance

If you had a choice between reading OUR shit or YOUR shit which would it be?

[Pyrpolizer]

In case you don't suffer from monochromatism, you figure it out from the coloured parts of your own quotes.

You seemingly base your theory on interracial marriages and/or intercourse but fail to take into consideration that the number of people who DID NOT engage in interracial marriages and/or intercourse were FAR GREATER or there wouldn’t be any segregated ethnic groups today and instead we would have just CYPRIOTS, but that is obviously not the case. The ethnic groups obviously managed to stay VERY separated to this day.

Interracial marriages and wide scale conversions of Chirstians to the Mouslim relegion is a well documented fact. The fact that they were practiced on wide scale can be seen by the by 40,000 sudden increase of Christans over the mouslims when the British took over.Those were JUST the recent generation converted ones. Furthermore how do you explain the fact that PURELY TC villages had PURELY Greek names before 1974 even names like Ayios XXX.How do you explain the fact that purely TC villages were not even speaking Turkish before 1974, whereas a few miles away other TC were? How do you explain the fact the mainland Turks don't even consider the TCs as Turks because they look so different than them and they call them "British Bas..s" Is it because perhaps a lot of them are actually decendents of the Latins?

Therefore at least I have some factual evidence.

What is YOUR evidence that the TC community was not by large formed this way?Just your assumption that the majority have not converted neither mixed?
May i remind you that all was needed to have an 18% TC community (half of which were actually converted GCs/Latins or the product of forced wife-taking) was just 1 out of 10 Christians to have converted over a period of so many generations?

Finally how do you explain our DNA matching??

[phoenix]

Finally how do you explain our DNA matching??

I know this is aimed at GR! but I'd like to have a go at answering this.

Our DNA matches because we are all part of the Human Race. There are more differences between individuals (hence the ability to do DNA-fingerprinting for relatedness) than there are between any two groups of people.

If you look at individual gene differences . . . usually ones that have evolved against environmental factors . . . then there are a few minor differences.

However, these invariably suggest that those who today call themselves GC are more related to Mainland Greeks than to TC or Turks. On the other hand individual gene differences tally with placing those that call themselves TC as having Turkish/Mongol/Oriental relatedness.

GR! might have some original references to these findings.

Word of warning, there is a grave danger in using DNA to track "racial groups" as depending on the question asked you CAN find isolated (hence meaningless) data to fit any hypothesis.

[Pyrpolizer]

The truth the vast majority of TCs and Gcs where peasants not long ago, just 100 years ago, who were constantly suffering from hunger, and deceases. Education was a luxury, as for new clothes or new shoes, just forget it, maybe once every 2 years.The rich were those who could eat meat perhaps once a month. As for sex life, well, considering every attempt would almost certainly add to the already existing dozen of hungry children...

Why was this state of affairs any different to what was happening in Victorian times in Britain or any country in the World 100 years ago?

Cyprus was not unique in being poor and having a big peasant population.

Why???
1)Because Cyprus was NOT a colonizing power and never could be (so it couldn't suck the blood of other nations). That's why we don't have blacks here now btw. (happy now at least we don't have a "negro" problem)
2)Because Cyprus as a small island surrounded by nations were no advance was made, did not have much choice but to be in the same denominator.
3)Because Cyprus was a poor place suitable only for peasants, who were just happy to go through famine and deseases and still survive.
4)Because Cyprus was an island at a time that islands were more or less isolated and where transport was difficult even from one village to another. Trips by ship were only used to abandon the place and they were one in a lifetime.
5)Cyprus did not have the resources to go through the industrial revolution.

Now you would like me to add the oppression of the Ottomans to all that to satisfy your hate against the TCs. Fine that's also one of the reasons, so

6) as if famine and deseases were not enough the Cypriots were also oppressed by the Ottomans who were heavily taxing everybody especilly the christians.

Pyrpolizer . . . I wasn't trying to minimise the struggle the Cypriots were facing 100 years ago . . . just pointing out the peasant life was the norm worldwide at the time. Sure there were landed gentry in the British Empire but the proportions were minimal.

Quite rightly you allude to the insurmountable struggles that the Cypriots had to endure because of the Ottoman oppression . . . and I wholeheartedly agree with you on those matters.

Any chance of you explaining your "negro" reference?

I said "btw" we never had a Victorian age based on slave "negro" manpower and sucking the blood of the people of our colonies.

[Pyrpolizer]

Finally how do you explain our DNA matching??

I know this is aimed at GR! but I'd like to have a go at answering this.

Our DNA matches because we are all part of the Human Race. There are more differences between individuals (hence the ability to do DNA-fingerprinting for relatedness) than there are between any two groups of people.

If you look at individual gene differences . . . usually ones that have evolved against environmental factors . . . then there are a few minor differences.

However, these invariably suggest that those who today call themselves GC are more related to Mainland Greeks than to TC or Turks. On the other hand individual gene differences tally with placing those that call themselves TC as having Turkish/Mongol/Oriental relatedness.

GR! might have some original references to these findings.

Word of warning, there is a grave danger in using DNA to track "racial groups" as depending on the question asked you CAN find isolated (hence meaningless) data to fit any hypothesis.

TOTALLY WRONG! Go see the results of the proffessor who did the testings. We are not talking for GROUP TO GROUP DNA matching. If it were like that then all people all around the world would have 100% DNA GROUP matchings because they are HUMAN as you said. Do you think the Cypriot American who made that search would be so stupid?


When we are talking about DNA matching of individuals we are not talking for 100% match. We are talking for high percentage match. And there is a high percentage matching in the DNA of individual GCs to individual TCs. The average of this matchings is much less when compared to the average matching we have with the mainlanders, or other nations.

[phoenix]

Finally how do you explain our DNA matching??

I know this is aimed at GR! but I'd like to have a go at answering this.

Our DNA matches because we are all part of the Human Race. There are more differences between individuals (hence the ability to do DNA-fingerprinting for relatedness) than there are between any two groups of people.

If you look at individual gene differences . . . usually ones that have evolved against environmental factors . . . then there are a few minor differences.

However, these invariably suggest that those who today call themselves GC are more related to Mainland Greeks than to TC or Turks. On the other hand individual gene differences tally with placing those that call themselves TC as having Turkish/Mongol/Oriental relatedness.

GR! might have some original references to these findings.

Word of warning, there is a grave danger in using DNA to track "racial groups" as depending on the question asked you CAN find isolated (hence meaningless) data to fit any hypothesis.

TOTALLY WRONG! Go see the results of the proffessor who did the testings. We are not talking for GROUP TO GROUP DNA matching. If it were like that then all people all around the world would have 100% DNA GROUP matchings because they are HUMAN as you said. Do you think the Cypriot American who made that search would be so stupid?

No he may not be so stupid BUT the people who read what they want into individual ie single gene analysis are the one's who are stupid. You can find any number of genes to fit any hypothesis because there are so many and we have such little real data. See the word of warning above!

When we are talking about DNA matching of individuals we are not talking for 100% match. We are talking for high percentage match. And there is a high percentage matching in the DNA of individual GCs to individual TCs. The average of this matchings is much less when compared to the average matching we have with the mainlanders, or other nations.

Again you can select the genes you want to compare to get the result that suits your hypothesis. You are not adding to the sum of knowledge on this.

The only meaningful data that may arise is when somebody does the mitochondrial DNA analysis which to date has not been done in detail for TC or GC although some data exist for mainland Greeks.

I'll do a check to see if there's been anything recently on mitochondrial DNA because this actually tracks generations as it remains fairly stable and passed down from the Mother's side.