Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,

I was referring to the 1960 Constitution and the fixed rule that the president must be a Greek Cypriot and the Vice President Turkish Cypriot. How about leaving the Vice President as is and open the Presidency to all Cypriots. Naturally the president will be Greek in such a situation, but the abolition of the ethnic qualification for the highest post, head of state and government, is a symbolic act. If you dont like that solution how about making both candidates, the GC presidential candidate and the TC VP candidate go on the same ticket, as it happens in the USA elections. We would then know in advance which President can work with which Vice President as a team, ensuring smooth government when they are elected. Just trying out ideas, not writing the gospel here!

What is going to change,

GC President & TC Vice President 82% against a
TC President & GC Vice President 18%

Cypriots have not matured politically and will always vote along ethnic lines, so TC will nto stand a chance in hell of ever being voted in, we will always have a GC president, this was known even in the 1960s so thats why even in your ocnstitiution today you have the GC president and TC vice president.

You knew that the great majority of Cypriots are Greek right from when you first came here. If you didn't like this fact you shouldn't have come to Cyprus in the first place. Of course you came with the aim to oppress us and undemocratically rule over us, and thats what you did for 300 years.

So now what do you want? To oppress our democratic and human rights even more because you don't like the fact that you are a minority in Cyprus?

You can have all your rights, and your proportional representation. Beyond that each TC should have the right to stand in an election for the presidency, but you don't have the right to take it by force. So if you want a TC to be a president that should be one that will be voted by the majority of the Cypriot people and become president in a democratic way.

We had no choice my ancestors were all born here just like yours...but our history dictates that we do not trust each other and therefore safeguards are necessary to ensure we cannot dominate each other and for example a GC president is not always elected as its the GCs who show signs of racism as they will 100% vote along ethnic lines, eben if the TC candidate was the better man for the job. how will you stop this?

[phoenix]

You knew that the great majority of Cypriots are Greek right from when you first came here. If you didn't like this fact you shouldn't have come to Cyprus in the first place. Of course you came with the aim to oppress us and undemocratically rule over us, and thats what you did for 300 years.

So now what do you want? To oppress our democratic and human rights even more because you don't like the fact that you are a minority in Cyprus?

You can have all your rights, and your proportional representation. Beyond that each TC should have the right to stand in an election for the presidency, but you don't have the right to take it by force. So if you want a TC to be a president that should be one that will be voted by the majority of the Cypriot people and become president in a democratic way.

This is one of the most sensible summations I have seen in a long time and fully endorse it and wish I could maintain Piratis' level of persistent logic in the face of sheer ignorance spouted by the likes of VP and Murataga.

Keep up the good work Piratis . . I enjoy reading and learning from your posts.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis we are covering old ground again, lets just say the chasm between us is just to wide to bridge, you are trying to use your numerical advantage to push me into a trap where camaflougaged under democracy which when administration by Gcs as we will not get a look in (before you say democracy is the same everywhere thats bullsit and we both know it) will be hell on earht for us. So Im sorry we will not fall into this trap where we are like the ethnic minorities in the UK, where those minorities have accepted moving and living underthe laws of that land. I am not like them I have been here 400 years and therefore am as indigenous as you and there demand that my community also has a say in the running of this country and safeguards are in place to stop you using your numerical strangth to force us to do anything against our will.

Taking all the above into consider and your stubborn unmovable stand point you have no alternative left but to wait for that swing you long for and get on with your life in your part of the island. If you ever do get lucky and obtain the power to get what you want pleas epromise to complete what you tried to do in 1963 and 1974 andblow all the TCs to kingdom come as only then will you really get what you want.

This is what the Whites in South Africa used to say also. "We have been here for 100s of years, we will not be just equal citizens with these blacks"

You have been in Cyprus for 400 years and we have been for 3500 years. So there is absolutely nothing to justify your demand that each one of you should count more than each one of us.

So go on with your crimes and illegalities against us, just like you have done for almost the whole time since you set your foot on our island. But know that sooner or later our island will be liberated. you made the choice not to be an equal Cypriot citizen but to associate yourselves with the foreign invaders who occupy our land. Just remember this choice of yours.

Your majority rule is a weapon of persecution and discrimination for us Tcs, can you not see this? Your past actions have shown you are not competent of dealing with Tcs and including them into a united Cyprus. So its time to face the truth that TCs will fight tooth and nail to stop any changes that will not allow them stop you if you should try take measures to push us into a situation where we are disadvantaged. Piratis your empty threats mean nothing do your worst as we are happy with our choice as the alternative woudl have meant a lot worse for TCs and your comments reconfirm TCs greatest fears, you do more damage than you will ever know, even the most liberal TCs will never accept kneeling to your rule and being a minority in a GC state run by GCs in Greek.

[Piratis]

We had no choice my ancestors were all born here just like yours...but our history dictates that we do not trust each other and therefore safeguards are necessary to ensure we cannot dominate each other and for example a GC president is not always elected as its the GCs who show signs of racism as they will 100% vote along ethnic lines, eben if the TC candidate was the better man for the job. how will you stop this?

You ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people simply because they are of Greek origin and then you say that GCs are the racists?

Look mate, you came here to enslave and dominate us, and thats what you did for 3+ centuries. So now we want the freedom of our island. You are welcome to stay in this island as equal citizen, but not as our rulers to impose on Cyprus your will via undemocratic means. We do not live in the Ottoman era anymore.

And I am sure that TCs like Bir and Kikapu would be voted by many GCs. In the recent parliamentary elections the only TC candidate got way more votes than the TC voters. Actually she got the most votes in her party, more than any of the GC candiates of that party.
So your arguments don't hold water.

[Piratis]

Piratis we are covering old ground again, lets just say the chasm between us is just to wide to bridge, you are trying to use your numerical advantage to push me into a trap where camaflougaged under democracy which when administration by Gcs as we will not get a look in (before you say democracy is the same everywhere thats bullsit and we both know it) will be hell on earht for us. So Im sorry we will not fall into this trap where we are like the ethnic minorities in the UK, where those minorities have accepted moving and living underthe laws of that land. I am not like them I have been here 400 years and therefore am as indigenous as you and there demand that my community also has a say in the running of this country and safeguards are in place to stop you using your numerical strangth to force us to do anything against our will.

Taking all the above into consider and your stubborn unmovable stand point you have no alternative left but to wait for that swing you long for and get on with your life in your part of the island. If you ever do get lucky and obtain the power to get what you want pleas epromise to complete what you tried to do in 1963 and 1974 andblow all the TCs to kingdom come as only then will you really get what you want.

This is what the Whites in South Africa used to say also. "We have been here for 100s of years, we will not be just equal citizens with these blacks"

You have been in Cyprus for 400 years and we have been for 3500 years. So there is absolutely nothing to justify your demand that each one of you should count more than each one of us.

So go on with your crimes and illegalities against us, just like you have done for almost the whole time since you set your foot on our island. But know that sooner or later our island will be liberated. you made the choice not to be an equal Cypriot citizen but to associate yourselves with the foreign invaders who occupy our land. Just remember this choice of yours.

Your majority rule is a weapon of persecution and discrimination for us Tcs, can you not see this? Your past actions have shown you are not competent of dealing with Tcs and including them into a united Cyprus. So its time to face the truth that TCs will fight tooth and nail to stop any changes that will not allow them stop you if you should try take measures to push us into a situation where we are disadvantaged. Piratis your empty threats mean nothing do your worst as we are happy with our choice as the alternative woudl have meant a lot worse for TCs and your comments reconfirm TCs greatest fears, you do more damage than you will ever know, even the most liberal TCs will never accept kneeling to your rule and being a minority in a GC state run by GCs in Greek.

Sure mate, and when you were ruling Cyprus for 3+ centuries you were asking our opinion You killed 10s of thousands of people and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands and then you have the nerve to talk about "persecution and discrimination"

What I ask from TCs is to be equal Cypriot citizens like me. With the exact same rights and responsibilities. I am sure all the good TCs would accept that. The thieving criminal ones like you of course they will not, and nothing that I will say will change their mind. What you want is to reduce us from 82% to 50%, and to steal our land. Be sure we will never capitulate to your blackmail.

[Viewpoint]

We had no choice my ancestors were all born here just like yours...but our history dictates that we do not trust each other and therefore safeguards are necessary to ensure we cannot dominate each other and for example a GC president is not always elected as its the GCs who show signs of racism as they will 100% vote along ethnic lines, eben if the TC candidate was the better man for the job. how will you stop this?

You ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of people simply because they are of Greek origin and then you say that GCs are the racists?

Look mate, you came here to enslave and dominate us, and thats what you did for 3+ centuries. So now we want the freedom of our island. You are welcome to stay in this island as equal citizen, but not as our rulers to impose on Cyprus your will via undemocratic means. We do not live in the Ottoman era anymore.

And I am sure that TCs like Bir and Kikapu would be voted by many GCs. In the recent parliamentary elections the only TC candidate got way more votes than the TC voters. Actually she got the most votes in her party, more than any of the GC candiates of that party.
So your arguments don't hold water.

She got the sympathy vote as they knew she didnt have a chance in hell of getting elected.

Why do you still quote what went on 400 years ago a time when I had no say, you only have to go back 44 years to a time when we all had a say and you had the chance to build a united "democratic" Cyprus.

The ethnic cleansing you refer to was an act of separating 2 naughty children, who have yet to reconcile their differences and look like they never will. You know my opinions on refugees and their rights which are paramount in any solution be it unificaiton or agreed partition.

Looks like we have to hold to what we have and you have to try and get it back, good luck to both of us as we will never find what we are looking for.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Sure mate, and when you were ruling Cyprus for 3+ centuries you were asking our opinion You killed 10s of thousands of people and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands and then you have the nerve to talk about "persecution and discrimination"

What I ask from TCs is to be equal Cypriot citizens like me. With the exact same rights and responsibilities. I am sure all the good TCs would accept that. The thieving criminal ones like you of course they will not, and nothing that I will say will change their mind. What you want is to reduce us from 82% to 50%, and to steal our land. Be sure we will never capitulate to your blackmail.

Piratis I have never stolen anything in my life and I cannot be held accountable for what happened 400 years ago, you are being ridiculous. The division was just as much your fault as it was mine, so dont always blame one side, we to lost 63% of our island. Its my right to ask for safeguards to guarantee GCs do not discriminate and exclude me in 2007+ if we were ever to unite. Is this to much to ask for?, you have an appaulling track record against us 1963 to 1974 an therefore cannot ask us to just take a leap of faith and hope all turns out well, I have to have not only propotaional representation but the right to stop your actions against our community and you should also be accountable for those actions with severe consequencies, if you have no such intentions than why so you struggle with accepting such safeguards?

[Piratis]

Sure we had no say, you didn't let us have one. I am not going back 400 years ago only. You oppression continued 300 and 200 and just over 100 years ago, and after a small break you started all over again, and you continue until today and for the last 3+ decades.

If you wanted to separate "2 naughty children" then you should have gone back from where you came from and all problems would be over. Or maybe ethnic cleansing is OK only when it is about you stealing our land?

[Get Real!]

Piratis I have never stolen anything in my life and I cannot be held accountable for what happened 400 years ago, you are being ridiculous. The division was just as much your fault as it was mine, so dont always blame one side, we to lost 63% of our island. Its my right to ask for safeguards to guarantee GCs do not discriminate and exclude me in 2007+ if we were ever to unite. Is this to much to ask for?, you have an appaulling track record against us 1963 to 1974 an therefore cannot ask us to just take a leap of faith and hope all turns out well, I have to have not only propotaional representation but the right to stop your actions against our community and you should also be accountable for those actions with severe consequencies, if you have no such intentions than why so you struggle with accepting such safeguards?

You have a beyond appalling record for 400+ years so we shouldn't even accept the one-man one-vote scheme. We'll need at least five votes to one to guarantee that you/Ottomas/Turks whatever never cause any death or destruction again.

[Murataga]

Piratis-

I see you are all psyched up today... Is it because of Nikiforos? I read the theme is "invading the North" this year How did you score on TC target practice?