Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Presumably the EXPECTED solution by EVERYONE will be FEDERAL.

I don't understand all this stupid discussions going on in circles, about having a Unitary state that the TCs been the 18% will supposely be discriminated against etc etc.

So VP how do you envision the role of the TCs in this FEDERAL UNITED CYPRUS?

Discrimination comes in many forms my friend. Our veto gives us protection against many of them.

[Nikitas]

Viewpoint said:

"Not strange at all from a TC perspective...you people are the numerical majority so we will in fact be at your mercy as it will purely up to GC parties if they wish yo unite with TC parties as they hold 80% of the vote and if they desire can form purely GC parties that will attract the majority of GC votes to bring them to power, where does that leave us? "

Well Viewpoint, in the presidential elections coming up, if there was an 18 per cent block of votes for any of the candidates that person would be the outright winner from round one, there would be no need for thefinal round between the two leading candidates. In effect the Turkish Cypriot vote would be the decider in all elections.

But that is not what I was proposing. A 1960 constitution with additions mandated by membership in the EU will reinforce rights given by the constitution.

[zan]

Viewpoint said:

"Not strange at all from a TC perspective...you people are the numerical majority so we will in fact be at your mercy as it will purely up to GC parties if they wish yo unite with TC parties as they hold 80% of the vote and if they desire can form purely GC parties that will attract the majority of GC votes to bring them to power, where does that leave us? "

Well Viewpoint, in the presidential elections coming up, if there was an 18 per cent block of votes for any of the candidates that person would be the outright winner from round one, there would be no need for thefinal round between the two leading candidates. In effect the Turkish Cypriot vote would be the decider in all elections.

But that is not what I was proposing. A 1960 constitution with additions mandated by membership in the EU will reinforce rights given by the constitution.

Is that adding to the Zurich agreement or taking away???

[michalis5354]

I see the TCs having their own Federal Zone and being accountable to a Central Government under a Bizonal Bicommunal Federation . They will have a veto power and % representation in the Central Government according to the 1960 Constitution. Also this can be improved further to make it as acceptable and fair to both sides as possible.

[Kifeas]

I see the TCs having their own Federal Zone and being accountable to a Central Government under a Bizonal Bicommunal Federation . They will have a veto power and % representation in the Central Government according to the 1960 Constitution. Also this can be improved further to make it as acceptable to both sides as possible.

Good! I would also accept TCs have their own 18% Federal Zone and be accountable to a Central Government under a Bizonal Bicommunal Federation!

[Nikitas]

Zan,

If you mean the Turkish Cypriot vote being the decider, then it does give politically more power to the Turkish Cypriot community but not in the rigid terms of guarantees contained in the 1960 constitution.

If you mean the EU aquis, then it does offer more than the 1960 constitution. The EU legal order does not replace the consitution, it adds to it more closely defined and legally tested rights. To date i have not come across any part of the EU aquis which can be seen as detrimental to any communal or individual rights.

[Piratis]

Piratis

TCs are the 18%, they wouldn't need to make their "voice heard through GC MPs" since they could elect a lot of MPs of their own since. If we assume that all GCs voted for GC MPS and all TCs voted for TC MPs, then the TCs would have 18% of MPs that would represent the 18% of population. Isn't that fair to you?

18 against 82 who do you think will win every time? will we stand any chance or opposing any issues that would effect us as TCs more negatively than it would you? Your track record tells us that we would be putting ourselves at great risk and even danger if we ever accepted such a structure.

Our "track record" is WAY better than yours, so you should be the last one talking about that. If you don't like the fact that the great majority of Cypriots are Greek Cypriots and you would feel more comfortable in a Turkish Republic where the majority are Turks and Muslims, then that country is Turkey. The Ottoman rule over our island is over, and so will be your illegal occupation.
Within Cyprus, your minority can have the rights, and be protected, just like every other minority in the world.

TCs are not the only minority in Cyprus. There are other, much smaller minorities. Have the Armenians, the Latins or the Maronites, who are tiny minorities being harmed or had their rights violated in any way? On the contrary, the leader of the ruling party in Cyprus is an Armenian Cypriot, and those minorities are perfectly respected by the rest of Cypriots and the state.

Are or were the minorities owners and rulers of Cyprus, do they have a partnership agreement just like the one you signed in 1960? what will happen to our community rights and do these small minorities have community rights?

Well, the Latins were rulers of Cyprus at one point yes. So what? And we never had any "partnership agreement".
The rights of each citizen should be the same regardless of his race and ethnic background. We are not living during the Ottoman era that you could keep GCs as second category citizens.

Cyprus is a modern EU country VP. It is not Turkey. If you were concerned about minority rights then you should be concerned about how Kurds are treated in Turkey. The Kurds are 20% and their parties are banned. Those that managed to get elected as independents are much less than the 20% of the MPs.

Why do you always try to divert the subject onto other issues, this island is my concern and although I can sympathise with other issues throughout the world I know where my priorities lay. As for being a modern EU country I have my doubts placing a racing horse saddle on donkey does not make it a race horse. You have yet to show any signs of compromise and leadership towards supporting or generating a solution, you have along way to go to get into line with the EU philosophy of sharing and compromise.

You are wrong. The EU is a strong supporter of human rights and international law. Maybe the Turks would make compromises in these issues to suit their criminal aims, but we do not, and we will not.

What should happen is not us to make compromises in democracy, legality and human rights, but the Turks to finally come out of the middle ages and accept these principles, both for Turkey and for Cyprus.

Beyond that, if you still have a concern is that you will be discriminated in Cyprus, then I wouldn't have in Cyprus if we implement affirmative action at all levels, to guarantee that TCs are not discriminated or under-represented anywhere.

Not to clear what you are trying to say here, could you clarify.

What I am saying is that it can be guaranteed, at all levels, that 18% of the positions will be occupied by TCs.

But lets face it VP. What you want is not just to ensure that you will not be discriminated against or be under-represented in a united Cyprus.

why can you not take it as sincerity when I say that my main concern is discrimination and under representation even exclusion as if this was to happen it would leave TCs degraded and resentful towards GCs and we would be back to square one, small groups would start civil unrest and before you know it you would have a civil war on your hands. Why not take precautions to ensure this does not happen? you appear confident that you have EU principles and morals then the safeguards we ask for would not even come into play, why are you so afraid? do you want to leave the door wide open to pushing us out of power sharing and reduce us to a minority in our own country? as that what I think you would try to do the first opportunity you got.

We can take all the precautions, safegaurts and everything else you want to guarantee that TCs will not be discriminated against and will not be under-represented. When did I ever oppose this?
What I oppose is your demands to descriminate against the rest of Cypriots, and that we should be under-represented.
And we will not "reduce you to a minority". You are just the 18% and therefore you are a minority and you have always been one.

What you want is exactly the opposite, to discriminate against all non TC Cypriots and be way over-represented, while everybody else is under-represented.

Wrong, what I want is not to be totally ruled by GCs and be included in such a way that they will not be allowed to push me out, you can formalize this how you wish but GCs should wake up to the fact that we are equal partners who demand rights that will only come into play when GCs try to force them to do things against their will.

Each TC is equal to each GC. If you are saying that each TC worths as much as 4.5 GCs, then no sorry, we will not accept such racist discriminations, we are not living in the Ottoman era anymore.
You will not be "tottaly ruled by GCs" You will be ruled by Cypriots. If it bothers you that the great majority of Cypriots are GCs, then as I told you before go back to Turkey.

In a few words: You want to use the Turkish army and with brute force and blackmail to gain on our loss, not just in terms of rights and power, but land as well. Thats the problem

Don't forget in this scenario there is no Turkish Army and we have formed a united Cyprus Im asking you how you see the TC role in that makeup but the majority of GCs are having a problem responding, be honest as this will effect how we think about GC and their aim to turn the whole of the island into a GC state, blow away the myths you claim we have in our minds and give us plenty of reason to send the Army away, to date none of you have been able to do this.

Thats the usual blackmail: "Give me enough money/power etc to satisfy me, and I will give you back what I stole." No, sorry. What you get is what every other Cypriot citizen gets. If thats not enough for you, and you want to gain on the loss of others in order to be satisfied, then know that your criminal actions will have consequences. Your blackmails will have no result.

[Kifeas]

Lets hear from Gcs on how they view our role in a united Cyprus. Lets start with a clean page and see what GCs will put forward on how they feel we shoudl fit into a united Cyprus.

Maybe this will help clear a few preconcieved ideas or reconfirm them..the ball is in your court.

VP, the above inquiry is absurd and ridiculous! It is not what others expect your role to be in Cyprus that matters, but what role you are ready and /or wish or will choose to play! Nevertheless, you know very well that no thinking GC, no GC political party and no GC leadership envision a solution that will establish an environment in which (a) you will have absolutely no effective participation in the decision making of the country, more so when it concerns or will potentially affect your community’s well meant interests, and (b,) your distinct cultural identity will be put at risk of extinction or marginalisation!

[Kifeas]

...

[Kifeas]

Are or were the minorities owners and rulers of Cyprus, ......? .

Who "be kurabiye" were the "owners" and rulers of Cyprus??? Your community (half of which are Yiuruk nomads transferred from Anatolia and the other half is Islamised Cypriots,) or the Ottoman sultan seating in Istinpoli (Istanbul???)

Were /are you (your community) and the Ottoman Sultan, the same??? KURABIYE!!!