Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

The hate exists among some exactly because the Turks violate our human rights and occupy our land. It is only natural.

The solution is to end the illegalities and the crimes, apply democracy and human rights, so the wounds will be healed. Just like it happened in all other countries where conflict existed between the various ethnic groups.

Equality among all citizens, democracy and human rights is the only solution.

What you would propose? Yet more discriminations and violations of human rights against all non Turkish Cypriots, in order to fuel yet more hate?

Piratis , its people like yourselves who are fomenting this hatred. Always stirring. Common sense dictates that we sit down and'talk'. While you are spreading your venom nothing can be negotiated, which in the end will culminate in the removal of 'foreign' armies.

Deniz, hate is a natural feeling. Some people are more resistant to this feeling and others are less. The hate that exists among some Greek Cypriots is due to what is hapening to their own lives today. If a person lives in some crappy refugee housing and he sees his home and village stolen from him and now inhabited by some foreigners who illegally bought it from the thieves, then this person doesn't need anybody to foment his hate.

Instead of accusing and blaming the victims, you should be concentrated on removing the reason for the hate, which is the illegality and the human rights violations.

We had "negotiations" for decades already. Unfortunately the Turkish side will accept nothing but partition and the violations of our rights. They occupy our land and they are trying to blackmail us and force us into capitulation.
If/When the Turkish side changes its attitude and accepts that the solution should be within the limits of democracy and human rights, that will have as a result a normal democratic country like all the rest in EU, then we would be more than glad to negotiate again.

Even better, the illegalities and the crimes should end immitiedly, and then without blackmails and force to see if there is a solution that will be better for both sides. If such solution exists (better for both) then obviously will both accept it. Right? Unfortunately the TC want something much better for themselves and much worst for us, which is why they feel the need to apply force and blackmail in order to force us to accept their demands.

[denizaksulu]

The hate exists among some exactly because the Turks violate our human rights and occupy our land. It is only natural.

The solution is to end the illegalities and the crimes, apply democracy and human rights, so the wounds will be healed. Just like it happened in all other countries where conflict existed between the various ethnic groups.

Equality among all citizens, democracy and human rights is the only solution.

What you would propose? Yet more discriminations and violations of human rights against all non Turkish Cypriots, in order to fuel yet more hate?

Piratis , its people like yourselves who are fomenting this hatred. Always stirring. Common sense dictates that we sit down and'talk'. While you are spreading your venom nothing can be negotiated, which in the end will culminate in the removal of 'foreign' armies.

Deniz, hate is a natural feeling. Some people are more resistant to this feeling and others are less. The hate that exists among some Greek Cypriots is due to what is hapening to their own lives today. If a person lives in some crappy refugee housing and he sees his home and village stolen from him and now inhabited by some foreigners who illegally bought it from the thieves, then this person doesn't need anybody to foment his hate.

Instead of accusing and blaming the victims, you should be concentrated on removing the reason for the hate, which is the illegality and the human rights violations.

We had "negotiations" for decades already. Unfortunately the Turkish side will accept nothing but partition and the violations of our rights. They occupy our land and they are trying to blackmail us and force us into capitulation.
If/When the Turkish side changes its attitude and accepts that the solution should be within the limits of democracy and human rights, that will have as a result a normal democratic country like all the rest in EU, then we would be more than glad to negotiate again.

Even better, the illegalities and the crimes should end immitiedly, and then without blackmails and force to see if there is a solution that will be better for both sides. If such solution exists (better for both) then obviously will both accept it. Right? Unfortunately the TC want something much better for themselves and much worst for us, which is why they feel the need to apply force and blackmail in order to force us to accept their demands.

Piratis, up to 1974 there were more TCs who hated GCs than now. Many TCs have learnt to let bygones be bygones. I know that you will find this difficult as your losses are 'greater' as you keep on reminding us. This is in disregard of our 'lesser' losses between 1963-1974.
Why have you more human rights after 1974, than we did before those years? I know you will say two wrongs will not make one right, but your ramblings will only begin to make TCs remember the wrongs against them in the past. I always considered myself as a moderate who would be prepared to forget the past and opt to live together in peace. If there are much more people like yourself, I'd stick to the 'status quo' against my better judgement.
Regards

[Pyrpolizer]

Here's how I see it from a recent conversation with a TC.

-Where are you from?
-Orta Koy
-Where is Orta Koy?
-You don't know???? The other side of Nicosia, just outside the town.
-Oh. And what are you doing here?
-I have a contract man!
-What contract?
-I got it from the Government. 1000 pieces of XYZ for 6 months
-I do 5-6 per day, each one 100 pounds pure profit. He, he,he.
-Bravo re gardash. (Jesus this TC discovered the hole from where money flows)

Did you also ask him what he thought about partition and closure of all the crossings?

[Get Real!]

Piratis , its people like yourselves who are fomenting this hatred. Always stirring. Common sense dictates that we sit down and'talk'. While you are spreading your venom nothing can be negotiated, which in the end will culminate in the removal of 'foreign' armies.

Deniz, hate is a natural feeling. Some people are more resistant to this feeling and others are less. The hate that exists among some Greek Cypriots is due to what is hapening to their own lives today.

A BIG bravo to Piratis for having the patience to even meticulously explain the word "hate" in a peaceful and civilized manner. You're a credit to the forum.

@Deniz
You dissapoint me! You don't complain of worthless clowns like Eric yet you have a constant gripe against Piratis who goes out of his way for everyone who cares to debate in a civilised manner.

[denizaksulu]

Piratis , its people like yourselves who are fomenting this hatred. Always stirring. Common sense dictates that we sit down and'talk'. While you are spreading your venom nothing can be negotiated, which in the end will culminate in the removal of 'foreign' armies.

Deniz, hate is a natural feeling. Some people are more resistant to this feeling and others are less. The hate that exists among some Greek Cypriots is due to what is hapening to their own lives today.

A BIG bravo to Piratis for having the patience to even meticulously explain the word "hate" in a peaceful and civilized manner. You're a credit to the forum.

@Deniz
You dissapoint me! You don't complain of worthless clowns like Eric yet you have a constant gripe against Piratis who goes out of his way for everyone who cares to debate in a civilised manner.

Sorry for your groundless disappointment GR. Obviously you have missed the post I sent to eric-dayi regarding his 'very' colorful language.
Regarding Piratis, its his delivery and not his patriotism I have issues with. Otherwise I have no disagreements with him. If he does not know that yet, I have wasted my 6 months on this forum. AND you ought to know better.

[miltiades]

Every Cypriot citizen should be equal without racist discriminations. Beyond that each Cypriot's role will depend on what he or she will do, and the limit is only the law and the each persons capabilities.

If TCs do not accept the role of equal Cypriot citizens, but they want to be the "super citizens" who are above all others just because they are Turkish, then obviously the rest of Cypriots will not accept it such racist discriminations.

Lets go down this avenue and see where it would lead us, on paper we are all equal citizens one man one vote, the whole island is one, no divisions, every ones property rights are restored one way or another and we have kicked the Turkish army out. The 80% balance in favor of the GCs would automatically ensure that and political party formed by the GCs would get a whopping big chunk of the vote that would bring them to power. How will we ge our voice heard through GC MPs, how will we stop any decisions that will according to us influence TCs negatively, forcing us to go against our will? How will we stop discrimination which will run rife and how will we ensure equal opportunity when the government body is run by GCs. TCs feel due to past and present GC expertise in making black white and white black that they will rot in the corridors of the ECHR trying to get their even most basic of rights due to the power the GCs will have over them using their numerical superiority.

Well put.

I think you have selective memory...Kifeas already gave you an arrangement that you gladly agreed...

So why are you asking stupid questions?

But if go down the road of one person one vote...then you will have to tow the party line as parties will be made of a variety of people...

Ask yourself this question...why do the turkish in Greece mainly vote Greek people rather than their own?...coz they are choosing the best man for the job...

Get over it

If the political parties are mixed as they should be and they unite like the rest of the island then how do you know?

How many Armenians are there and one of them is heading up the ruling party?

As long as you have no problem with the island being Greek then there is no problem......We don't



Can any Armenians on the island tell us if they have ever had this experience...


"Where are you from"

"Cyprus"

"Oh! You must be Armenian then"........







No!.......I didn't think so.

Zan , it is not unreasonable on being asked where you are from and on replying from Cyprus to be asked if Greek. Often I ask people where they come from and on being told Turkey I do not presume Kurdish but I say Turkish ? It is not a big issue and you should not make it one.The G/Cs and the T/Cs by embracing Cypriotness should feel no offense when thought of as G/Cs or T/Cs.

[Get Real!]

Piratis , its people like yourselves who are fomenting this hatred. Always stirring. Common sense dictates that we sit down and'talk'. While you are spreading your venom nothing can be negotiated, which in the end will culminate in the removal of 'foreign' armies.

Deniz, hate is a natural feeling. Some people are more resistant to this feeling and others are less. The hate that exists among some Greek Cypriots is due to what is hapening to their own lives today.

A BIG bravo to Piratis for having the patience to even meticulously explain the word "hate" in a peaceful and civilized manner. You're a credit to the forum.

@Deniz
You dissapoint me! You don't complain of worthless clowns like Eric yet you have a constant gripe against Piratis who goes out of his way for everyone who cares to debate in a civilised manner.

Sorry for your groundless disappointment GR. Obviously you have missed the post I sent to eric-dayi regarding his 'very' colorful language.
Regarding Piratis, its his delivery and not his patriotism I have issues with. Otherwise I have no disagreements with him. If he does not know that yet, I have wasted my 6 months on this forum. AND you ought to know better.

What's wrong with his delivery? I don't see any foul language or anything else provocative... in fact I don't ever recall him being rude to anyone!

And what's all this about wasting 6 months here? Are you on a contract?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

TCs are the 18%, they wouldn't need to make their "voice heard through GC MPs" since they could elect a lot of MPs of their own since. If we assume that all GCs voted for GC MPS and all TCs voted for TC MPs, then the TCs would have 18% of MPs that would represent the 18% of population. Isn't that fair to you?

18 against 82 who do you think will win every time? will we stand any chance or opposing any issues that would effect us as TCs more negatively than it would you? Your track record tells us that we would be putting ourselves at great risk and even danger if we ever accepted such a structure.

TCs are not the only minority in Cyprus. There are other, much smaller minorities. Have the Armenians, the Latins or the Maronites, who are tiny minorities being harmed or had their rights violated in any way? On the contrary, the leader of the ruling party in Cyprus is an Armenian Cypriot, and those minorities are perfectly respected by the rest of Cypriots and the state.

Are or were the minorities owners and rulers of Cyprus, do they have a partnership agreement just like the one you signed in 1960? what will happen to our community rights and do these small minorities have community rights?

Cyprus is a modern EU country VP. It is not Turkey. If you were concerned about minority rights then you should be concerned about how Kurds are treated in Turkey. The Kurds are 20% and their parties are banned. Those that managed to get elected as independents are much less than the 20% of the MPs.

Why do you always try to divert the subject onto other issues, this island is my concern and although I can sympathise with other issues throughout the world I know where my priorities lay. As for being a modern EU country I have my doubts placing a racing horse saddle on donkey does not make it a race horse. You have yet to show any signs of compromise and leadership towards supporting or generating a solution, you have along way to go to get into line with the EU philosophy of sharing and compromise.

Beyond that, if you still have a concern is that you will be discriminated in Cyprus, then I wouldn't have in Cyprus if we implement affirmative action at all levels, to guarantee that TCs are not descriminated or under-represented anywhere.

Not to clear what you are trying to say here, could you clarify.

But lets face it VP. What you want is not just to ensure that you will not be discriminated against or be under-represented in a united Cyprus.

why can you not take it as sincerity when I say that my main concern is discrimination and under representation even exclusion as if this was to happen it would leave TCs degraded and resentful towards GCs and we would be back to square one, small groups would start civil unrest and before you know it you would have a civil war on your hands. Why not take precautions to ensure this does not happen? you appear confident that you have EU principles and morals then the safeguards we ask for would not even come into play, why are you so afraid? do you want to leave the door wide open to pushing us out of power sharing and reduce us to a minority in our own country? as that what I think you would try to do the first opportunity you got.

What you want is exactly the opposite, to discriminate against all non TC Cypriots and be way over-represented, while everybody else is under-represented.

Wrong, what I want is not to be totally ruled by GCs and be included in such a way that they will not be allowed to push me out, you can formalize this how you wish but GCs should wake up to the fact that we are equal partners who demand rights that will only come into play when GCs try to force them to do things against their will.

In a few words: You want to use the Turkish army and with brute force and blackmail to gain on our loss, not just in terms of rights and power, but land as well. Thats the problem

Don't forget in this scenario there is no Turkish Army and we have formed a united Cyprus Im asking you how you see the TC role in that makeup but the majority of GCs are having a problem responding, be honest as this will effect how we think about GC and their aim to turn the whole of the island into a GC state, blow away the myths you claim we have in our minds and give us plenty of reason to send the Army away, to date none of you have been able to do this.

[zan]

Every Cypriot citizen should be equal without racist discriminations. Beyond that each Cypriot's role will depend on what he or she will do, and the limit is only the law and the each persons capabilities.

If TCs do not accept the role of equal Cypriot citizens, but they want to be the "super citizens" who are above all others just because they are Turkish, then obviously the rest of Cypriots will not accept it such racist discriminations.

Lets go down this avenue and see where it would lead us, on paper we are all equal citizens one man one vote, the whole island is one, no divisions, every ones property rights are restored one way or another and we have kicked the Turkish army out. The 80% balance in favor of the GCs would automatically ensure that and political party formed by the GCs would get a whopping big chunk of the vote that would bring them to power. How will we ge our voice heard through GC MPs, how will we stop any decisions that will according to us influence TCs negatively, forcing us to go against our will? How will we stop discrimination which will run rife and how will we ensure equal opportunity when the government body is run by GCs. TCs feel due to past and present GC expertise in making black white and white black that they will rot in the corridors of the ECHR trying to get their even most basic of rights due to the power the GCs will have over them using their numerical superiority.

Well put.

I think you have selective memory...Kifeas already gave you an arrangement that you gladly agreed...

So why are you asking stupid questions?

But if go down the road of one person one vote...then you will have to tow the party line as parties will be made of a variety of people...

Ask yourself this question...why do the turkish in Greece mainly vote Greek people rather than their own?...coz they are choosing the best man for the job...

Get over it

If the political parties are mixed as they should be and they unite like the rest of the island then how do you know?

How many Armenians are there and one of them is heading up the ruling party?

As long as you have no problem with the island being Greek then there is no problem......We don't



Can any Armenians on the island tell us if they have ever had this experience...


"Where are you from"

"Cyprus"

"Oh! You must be Armenian then"........







No!.......I didn't think so.

Zan , it is not unreasonable on being asked where you are from and on replying from Cyprus to be asked if Greek. Often I ask people where they come from and on being told Turkey I do not presume Kurdish but I say Turkish ? It is not a big issue and you should not make it one.The G/Cs and the T/Cs by embracing Cypriotness should feel no offense when thought of as G/Cs or T/Cs.

I don't see it as an offence to be GC Miltiades..Far from it....It is just an affront to me as a Turkish Cypriot when you take into consideration how we have been treated and how we have had that proud tradition ripped from our identity.

[Pyrpolizer]

Presumably the EXPECTED solution by EVERYONE will be FEDERAL.

I don't understand all this stupid discussions going on in circles, about having a Unitary state that the TCs been the 18% will supposely be discriminated against etc etc.

So VP how do you envision the role of the TCs in this FEDERAL UNITED CYPRUS?