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Property Developers in north

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby cannedmoose » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:59 pm

brother wrote:KEN LIVINGSTONE IS A MORON, THIS IS THE MAN WHO RECENTLY INSULTED THE JEWS AND THE PRESS BY DESCRIBING THEM AS CONCENTRATION CAMP SOILDERS OR THE LIKE, even there vwas many calls for him to apologise he just refused too, many people in the u.k are pissed of at him, also this is the person who introduced a new stealth tax on central london called the congestion charge, which means anytime your car enters central london youi pay £5 and he wants to make it more expensive.
I cannoty stand this idiot and hope he gets voted to the political dustbin next time round.


Brother, we don't often disagree but I think yours is a very skewed view of Ken Livingstone. His so-called insult to jews was taken completely out of context and blown-up out of all proportions by a single media outlet that has hated him for many years. Yes, he was wrong to say what he did, but as he said on the Frost on Sunday programme a couple of weeks ago, if he'd been asked to apologise to the journalist in question, he would have done.

The full story is this, he was ambushed by this journalist late on a Wednesday evening, who effectively baited him into making some controversial remarks. The paper in question then sat on the story for 2 days before publishing it on Friday evening. That's hardly the actions of being extremely offended, instead a co-ordinated release of the story took place with the papers of the newspaper group - obviously aiming for maximum impact. Ken Livingstone has been one of the politicians at the forefront of improving race and community relations, so to label him as anti-semitic is a farce.

As for the congestion charge... what on earth else would solve London's chronic transport/infrastructure problems. There is no money in the treasury to radically improve public transport across London, so the money had to be found elsewhere. If it was such a bad idea, why is it now being adopted in other cities across the country and elsewhere in Europe?

As for Livingstone's politics, I'm no fan of his. I thought his running of the GLC in the early 1980s was a joke, when he allowed militancy to take over, I'm not with him on nuclear disarmament and I'm not with him on many, many other points, as a liberal-centrist he's still too far to the left of my comfort zone. However, from everything I've seen of him, he is one of the only UK politicians that I've seen who genuinely cares about what he's doing for the people of London. Can you just imagine if the lovely Lord Archer was in power? At no point do I see Ken Livingstone playing up his own importance, or using the Mayorship as a stepping stone to further power. If you don't appreciate honesty in politicians, that's your business, but I do.

Yes, I think in the context of overall British policy, TfL has fallen down on this TC issue. But, as others have pointed out, the GC population in London is extremely concentrated, extremely politically active and could change the course of voting in about 6 or 7 constituencies in London - a key battleground for Labour in the May (?) election. Therefore, this will be a popular move if anything and I'm sure the Labour Party nationally won't make too big a deal about it. It's also not in the power of the British GOVERNMENT to overrule this, it's a legal issue and I'm sure the government will be loath to get too involved and damage its reputation amongst GC voters (who tend to vote Labour).

So brother, sorry to disagree with you so vehemently on this one, otherwise I think your posts are very sensible, we just differ on this issue particularly.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:09 pm

deleted by the author...
Last edited by turkcyp on Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby brother » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:28 am

The u.k is one of the highest taxing countries in the world, and to most this was another stealth tax, i am not challanging the principle of if it works or not.
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:45 pm

brother wrote:The u.k is one of the highest taxing countries in the world, and to most this was another stealth tax, i am not challanging the principle of if it works or not.


Actually, on balance the UK is one of the lowest taxing countries, although with Council Tax it sometimes doesn't feel that way (got my bill today... £1,000 per year now)
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Postby -mikkie2- » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:51 pm

I would agree that the UK has a lowish tax regime. The Scandinavian countries have much higher taxation than uk. The congestion charge is a double edged sword. On the one hand it has cut congestion in central London by 20% but retailers in the zone are suffering lower sales as a result.

As for council tax, I'm looking at close to 2K!

Isn't this discussion slightly off topic????
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Postby brother » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:53 pm

moosey we live in the same country and you know we are the highest taxed, just over the water petrol is cheaper in france by a huge margin, council tax bill came to me yesterday i still have not found the courage to open the envelope.
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:36 pm

-mikkie2- wrote:As for council tax, I'm looking at close to 2K!


Blimey!

-mikkie2- wrote:Isn't this discussion slightly off topic????


Just slightly, it lost it's way a while ago...
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Postby cannedmoose » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:39 pm

brother wrote:moosey we live in the same country and you know we are the highest taxed, just over the water petrol is cheaper in france by a huge margin, council tax bill came to me yesterday i still have not found the courage to open the envelope.


Brother, I agree that in terms of petrol we are one of the highest taxed in the world, but otherwise, as mikkie pointed out, we do have one of the lowest general taxation regimes in Europe. I'd also choose to counter your statement that petrol in France is substantially cheaper. My parents have a house over there and unleaded is comparable to UK prices, diesel is markedly cheaper though.

As for the council tax, as a student I'm writing off for my 25% discount today, so £250 will hopefully get taken off mine... still a killer though. Have a stiff drink before you open it bro.
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