Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

A big thank you to Humanist and Phoenix for trashing this thread.

I guess it’s the only way our TC friends could have ever posted in here…

Wait for a GC idiot to post something irrelevant and then attack that!

Once again thanks, you’re doing a great job!

[denizaksulu]

And therein dear Deniz lies the problem for the south- the north will be a vilayet for Turkey, and the south will cling on to the 1960 constitution and the title RoC, which obliges it to open its doors to all its citizens. Result will be a replay of the Turkish minority in the south which has its rights allegeldly trampled and then what? We are already seeing such accusations in this forum. Notice that Turkey has never said it has no claims in the south, the contrary is true as we saw with the oil question. So despite Mr Gul saying there are two nations etc, when it comes to the money then Cyprus is unified and indivisible. Heads I win tails you lose they call the game.

Nikita, these are rhetoric. Nothing more than words. All battling for the high ground. Dont let paranoia get the better of you. I dont think that many TCs will accept to become a Vilayet. Sooner rather than later they will decide against it.

That is more scary to them than the alternative of Turkey Deniz....They will have to face us and have noone else to blame.......Roll on summer.....

I reckon the past '30 SICAK GUN', passed rather peacefully. I wonder what the next summer forbodes. The uncertainty is killing me.

[phoenix]

A big thank you to Humanist and Phoenix for trashing this thread.

I guess it’s the only way our TC friends could have ever posted in here…

Wait for a GC idiot to post something irrelevant and then attack that!

Once again thanks, you’re doing a great job!

Excuse me but I just quoted a relevant passage from the same speech . . and yes it did generate Deniz's interest and participation.

(I notice Nikitas is welcome )

In future: Please include exclusion caveats and guidelines in your threads so that we do not inadvertently fall foul of expectations by runaway enthusiasm.

Up until this outburst GR! I thought this was the most challenging thread to have been posted for a long time.

Enjoy . . .

[CopperLine]

A good question. A tough question.

At the moment we have in common currency, including in this Forum, the following descriptions or portrayals of Turkish Cypriots :

On the one hand,

- traitors to the RoC
- separatists
- living off stolen land
- citizens of an illegal state
- corrupt and corruptable
- cowards
- not real Cypriots, but closet Turks
- etc

On the other hand,

- lazy
- financially & economically dependent on Turkey
- militarily dependent on Turkey
- Cypriot baby to the Turkish motherland
- unable to defend themselves from GC or G attacks
- etc

In sum, Turkish Cypriots are described as traitors and/or foreign dependents.

If Turkish Cypriots make efforts to build links with the south, work in the south, or apply for RoC passports, etc, they're routinely accused of taking what they don't deserve or have no right to. If Turkish Cypriots build links with Turkey, work in or for Turkish businesses, or engage with the wider world through Turkish passport holding then they're routinely accused of selling out Cyprus.

Similarly, if Turkish Cypriots make overtures to the south which work they are routinely slammed down by Turkey, as if they were 'ungrateful wretches'. If Turkish Cypriots make overtures to the south which don't work or are stymied then this taken as proof positive that TCs are slave to Turkish interests.


So, indeed, what can Turkish Cypriots do for Cyprus that will not be interpreted as proof of treachery and/or proof of dependency ?

[denizaksulu]

A big thank you to Humanist and Phoenix for trashing this thread.

I guess it’s the only way our TC friends could have ever posted in here…

Wait for a GC idiot to post something irrelevant and then attack that!

Once again thanks, you’re doing a great job!

Excuse me but I just quoted a relevant passage from the same speech . . and yes it did generate Deniz's interest and participation.

(I notice Nikitas is welcome )

In future: Please include exclusion caveats and guidelines in your threads so that we do not inadvertently fall foul of expectations by runaway enthusiasm.

Up until this outburst GR! I thought this was the most challenging thread to have been posted for a long time.

Enjoy . . .

Mind boggles. GetReal and Phoenix in opposite corners? ...and I thought...This will be interesting. Both have my undivided attention.

[Nikitas]

Copperline,

I was in Cyprus for the first time in 25 years recently. There were Turkish Cypriot building contractors carrying on business there and the general attitude to them is no different than to any other businessmen. The press coverage of the Turkish Cypriot presence in the south is not negative. The labels attached by the mainlanders to the islander is similar in both cases, Greeks versus Greek Cypriots and Turks toward Turkish Cypriots.

As Kikapu wrote in his humorous piece re the talks between Talat and Papadopouls, the Turkish Cypriots are indeed caught between a rock and a hard place. And to revert to the heading of the thread what can they do for Cyprus. The answer is to assert their Cypriotness in the north. I have stressed several times before that there is a vast difference in the emotional impact of the north being in the hands of Turks from the north being in the hands of Turkish Cypriots. It may be a question of style as opposed to substance but it is important. So the first thing the Turkish Cypriots can do is get the upper hand in the north and Cypriotise the place. It would go a long way towards proving that whatever the outcome will be it will not be Turkish to the exclusion of Cypriot.

To go from the general to the particular. My grandfather's village is in the north. Turkish Cypriots from a nearby village live there. When my cousin went there he found that our granfather'shouse had been demolished. However, both he and I found the explanation given by the occupiers of neighboring houses reasonable- they had demolished all empty houses to prevent settlers from coming in. It was a very Cypriot action, therefore understandable and in the circumstances acceptable, although it would be nicer if the circumstances were different, of course.

[zan]

I think you need to read this once again Nikitas....Carefully!!!!!

A good question. A tough question.

At the moment we have in common currency, including in this Forum, the following descriptions or portrayals of Turkish Cypriots :

On the one hand,

- traitors to the RoC
- separatists
- living off stolen land
- citizens of an illegal state
- corrupt and corruptable
- cowards
- not real Cypriots, but closet Turks
- etc

On the other hand,

- lazy
- financially & economically dependent on Turkey
- militarily dependent on Turkey
- Cypriot baby to the Turkish motherland
- unable to defend themselves from GC or G attacks
- etc

In sum, Turkish Cypriots are described as traitors and/or foreign dependents.

If Turkish Cypriots make efforts to build links with the south, work in the south, or apply for RoC passports, etc, they're routinely accused of taking what they don't deserve or have no right to. If Turkish Cypriots build links with Turkey, work in or for Turkish businesses, or engage with the wider world through Turkish passport holding then they're routinely accused of selling out Cyprus.

Similarly, if Turkish Cypriots make overtures to the south which work they are routinely slammed down by Turkey, as if they were 'ungrateful wretches'. If Turkish Cypriots make overtures to the south which don't work or are stymied then this taken as proof positive that TCs are slave to Turkish interests.


So, indeed, what can Turkish Cypriots do for Cyprus that will not be interpreted as proof of treachery and/or proof of dependency ?

[CopperLine]

Nikitas,
I don't disagree with anything that you've just posted. In fact I strongly agree with your points about TC assertiveness. My purpose in making the last post was to remind and summarise what, in my view, were the circumstances in which the question 'what can Turkish Cypriots do for Cyprus ?' is to be answered by TCs.

I'll give what may seem a trivial example. Suppose TCs, with GCs, want to establish a coastal cycle route which necessarily crosses the Line at both ends through Turkish military restricted land. The first problem to be confronted is to show to the T's that they're not (a) in league with foreigners, and (b) are not traitors, and (c) are not compromising T's military installations. All this before even dealing with GCs. All this before thinking about actual cycleroutes and the benefits thereof.

So, where I would want to respond to the question 'what can Turkish Cypriots do for Cyprus ? with an answer such as 'organise a whole island cycle route for all Cyprus and all Cypriots' I'm years cranking the first pedal because of the need to trudge through the mountain of bigotry and crap from what many people in this forum (wrongly) call the TC side.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

What I could not detect is anyone in the broader Greek Cypriot society accusing the people who work in the south or claim passports and other public services. I read at least two newspapers on line daily, and follow RIK sat. There is no accusation so far. People in this forum do say things from time to time.

But to keep to the spirit of the thread, each and every time there is an expression of Cypriotness there is approval from the public in the south. On the whole there is understanding towards people who moved into houses and property in the north when the occupier is a Cypriot. And there is resentment when the occupier is non Cypriot of any origin. This leads me to believe that if the north is more Cypriot then that would be a positive step. Now dont anyone ask me what more Cypriot means, you all know!

I will put a rhetorical question here. Would the opposition have been as intense if the TRNC was simply RNC?

[CopperLine]

Let me also add that as far as many (I don't know about most) TCs seem to be concerned T. did rescue them, did save them in 1974. There is something to be grateful for, it is not a small detail.

Of course people (GCs and others) might say that the fear of TCs was exaggerated in 1974, that they're fears today are exaggerated and they don't still need the protection of T. Maybe, maybe not. (Myself I don't think T need be in Cyprus, perhaps not even since the late 1970s, but that is by the by). What is pertinent is that these feelings are genuine even if they are encouraged by propaganda (that is what propaganda is for after all - making more acute what was originally a genuine/authentic sentiment), and in that respect confidence building amongst TCs (along with GCs) is in my view crucial. The volume of racist abuse hurled in this forum against TCs and Turks, if indicative of a broader attitude will do nothing to encourage TCs to greater confidence in joining with GCs for a united and peaceful Cyprus.