Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Zan, I don;t think you can acuse me of picking the chocolate without you first admiting to yourself that you too do that.

Here it goes again, I believe that Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, I believe that all Cypriots have the right to equal rights and opportunities. I bvelieve Cypriots have the right to choose where they live and most certainly believe that Cypriots have rights to their properties and contry.

If that is picking the chocolate then I am guilty of your accusation.



Halil

I left Cyprus after 74, the reason we left Cyprus is that my father and mother did not want us to serve in the army because the Turks killed my mother's brother in the 74 invasion, and they did not want us to suffer the same fate.

As far as your children are concerned I am not sure what happens. It is no skin of my nose mate whetehr your 80.000 or 120,000 or whetehr infact the settlers ounumber you 2 to 1. What I think is ashame is that a group of people of my country are loosing their identity (in lack of a better word) as such a part of the Cypriot culture is also lost.

We are not loosing our identity , We are always saying We are Turkish Cypriot and i am be proud of Turkish Cypriot.İf our population is decreases Humanist, belive me the polcies of the present ROC effects on the Turkish Cypriots.


I thank God that I have developed this sense of proudness for my country and its history to accept and embrace difference to accept and respect my fellow Cypriots and not to hate or discriminate against them based on their colour language or creed. İ agree with u on this one.

When you understand what I am saying above with the most humbling way then you will understand where I am coming from.

İf everybody was thinking like above sayings . we wouldn't discuss now.
This island is big enough for all of us.

[humanist]

halil

If everybody was thinking like above sayings . we wouldn't discuss now.
This island is big enough for all of us.

Well Halil I invite you to join me in extending this thinking to others. Only by changing our own views can we have a posititve impact on our nation.

By the way I love the sounds of those words "This Island is big for all of us".

[boomerang]

Turkish army chief warns government on EU reforms
02.10.2007 - 09:21 CET | By Jochen Luypaert
A Turkish army chief has told the Turkish government to move slowly on key reforms sought by the EU.

Lt. Gen. Hilmi Akin Zorlu warned the Justice and Development (AKP) government not to yield to the EU on sensitive issues, the Turkish Daily news reported, quoting unnamed officials.

The issues mentioned were Cyprus, a law on the freedom of expression and more rights for non-Muslim religious organisations.

In particular, Mr Zorlu opposed any concessions on Cyprus, where the Turkish army has an estimated 30,000 troops stationed.

He issued the warning during an intra-governmental meeting last month while reading from a text he said was approved by the General Chief of Staff.

The meeting, held to review Turkey's reform process, was presided over by Turkish foreign minister Ali Babacan and attended by several top level bureaucrats.

Ambiguity
The Turkish government party remains ambiguous on its intentions to reform the state. The party is on the one hand reluctant to touch sensitive issues.

Article 301 of the penal code for example, drawn up by the same government in the previous legislature, makes it illegal to insult the Turkish identity and state, leading to several high-profile court cases.

The EU has since been pressing Turkey to abolish or change the article, but Turkey's justice and interior ministers recently expressed their unwillingness to do so.

On the other hand, the party expresses on regular intervals its wish to move ahead with reforms. On Monday (1 October) president Abdullah Gul urged Turkey's newly-elected parliament to take the fast lane in the reform process.

His call to accelerate the country's pace of change comes ahead of the European Commission's November report on Turkey's progress toward EU membership, expected to be critical of the slow pace of reforms.

Relations between the secular army and the Islamist AKP party have always been troubled. On other occasions, the army has warned the party not to alter the secular relationship between the state and religion.

http://euobserver.com/9/24884

with the words highlighted above, there is no doubt in my mind who calls the shots...

what further proof is needed in not believing what the partitionists are saying...ie...the title of this thread...what a joke...

and we get accussed of not wanting to meet the puppet...whats the point...

the sad part is that the way you are going, you gonna get steamrolled one day...big time...and by your own...

[humanist]

and we get accussed of not wanting to meet the puppet...whats the point...

the sad part is that the way you are going, you gonna get steamrolled one day...big time...and by your own...

sad but true ..... guess who's gonna have to pick up the pieces?

[Eric dayi]

Zan, I don;t think you can acuse me of picking the chocolate without you first admiting to yourself that you too do that.

Here it goes again, I believe that Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, I believe that all Cypriots have the right to equal rights and opportunities. I bvelieve Cypriots have the right to choose where they live and most certainly believe that Cypriots have rights to their properties and contry.

If that is picking the chocolate then I am guilty of your accusation.



Halil

I left Cyprus after 74, the reason we left Cyprus is that my father and mother did not want us to serve in the army because the Turks killed my mother's brother in the 74 invasion, and they did not want us to suffer the same fate.

Maybe you can imagine that we left Cyprus because some of our relatives were killed by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots and our father did not want us to suffer the same reason.

As far as your children are concerned I am not sure what happens. It is no skin of my nose mate whetehr your 80.000 or 120,000 or whetehr infact the settlers ounumber you 2 to 1. [/quote]

If it's not skin off your nose then why do you keep complaining about it?

What I think is ashame is that a group of people of my country are loosing their identity (in lack of a better word) as such a part of the Cypriot culture is also lost.

That we TCs are loosing our identity or our culture is a lie and propaganda of your government and people, we are not loosing our culture if anything we are re-learning and re-inforcing it because of what the Greeks and GCs did and have been doing to us TCs since 1963.

Since 1963 we have been subjected to inhumane treatment by the Greeks and GCs. We were and still are being persecuted by the GCs because we are Turkish Cypriots and the strong belief the GCs have about Cyprus being a "Greek island" and Turks have no place in it. We had to learned the hard way that no matter how much we say we are Cypriots we will always be looked upon as "Turks" by the GCs and never accepted as their equals hence the reason why we were pushed out of the government and and a genocide was attempted on our people to get rid of us. Even now your government sees us as nothing but "Turks" who must have no say in the ruling/running of the country. If that was not the fact then one of your "presidents" would have suggested that we return to the 1960 agrrement and lived happily ever after but they are not, are they?

I thank God that I have developed this sense of proudness for my country and its history to accept and embrace difference to accept and respect my fellow Cypriots and not to hate or discriminate against them based on their colour language or creed.

Here I have no choice but to call you a liar. How can you claim you are not
discriminating when you refuse to accept us as Turkish Cypriots?

When you understand what I am saying above with the most humbling way then you will understand where I am coming from.

When you understand what we Turkish Cypriots are talking about then maybe one day you will stop discriminating against us and accept us as Turkish Cypriots like the rest of the world does. Until then you are a liar who just repeats what he hears from the GC propagandists and liars.

[humanist]

am now breathing in deeply and breething out with love, for my sake ..........

[kyreniaman]

Dear Humanist I understand and appreciate your opinions, its been such a disaster which will NEVER be totally or fairly rectified for any party. My father lost very valuable lands outside Limossol too in Polemittga but unfortunately living in the past just brings bitterness and a lifetime has elapsed since then. The northern Cypriots have already lived a lifetime of depression and isolation, would it be fair to cause them more upheaval and uncertainty? What chance would they have to prosper when they have been the under dogs for so long? Lets try and look at both sides of the coin and not think only of the apparent physical issues of the past as the ongoing issues are more important as we live now not in the past and what previsions will be made for all this hardship they ENDURED and are still enduring? Who is thinking of the poor Cypriots? I would love to see a unified Cyprus as divided we fall and united we prosper. Joining the union in my opinion is the end of Cypriots and Cyprus as we knew it anyway. No more Cypriots just Europeans !!! As you know you didn't address the other issues I mentioned I'm just making the point that if any I feel that many Cypriots here have had a really raw deal !!!!!

[Kifeas]

Turkish army chief warns government on EU reforms
02.10.2007 - 09:21 CET | By Jochen Luypaert
A Turkish army chief has told the Turkish government to move slowly on key reforms sought by the EU.

Lt. Gen. Hilmi Akin Zorlu warned the Justice and Development (AKP) government not to yield to the EU on sensitive issues, the Turkish Daily news reported, quoting unnamed officials.

The issues mentioned were Cyprus, a law on the freedom of expression and more rights for non-Muslim religious organisations.

In particular, Mr Zorlu opposed any concessions on Cyprus, where the Turkish army has an estimated 30,000 troops stationed.

He issued the warning during an intra-governmental meeting last month while reading from a text he said was approved by the General Chief of Staff.

The meeting, held to review Turkey's reform process, was presided over by Turkish foreign minister Ali Babacan and attended by several top level bureaucrats.

Ambiguity
The Turkish government party remains ambiguous on its intentions to reform the state. The party is on the one hand reluctant to touch sensitive issues.

Article 301 of the penal code for example, drawn up by the same government in the previous legislature, makes it illegal to insult the Turkish identity and state, leading to several high-profile court cases.

The EU has since been pressing Turkey to abolish or change the article, but Turkey's justice and interior ministers recently expressed their unwillingness to do so.

On the other hand, the party expresses on regular intervals its wish to move ahead with reforms. On Monday (1 October) president Abdullah Gul urged Turkey's newly-elected parliament to take the fast lane in the reform process.

His call to accelerate the country's pace of change comes ahead of the European Commission's November report on Turkey's progress toward EU membership, expected to be critical of the slow pace of reforms.

Relations between the secular army and the Islamist AKP party have always been troubled. On other occasions, the army has warned the party not to alter the secular relationship between the state and religion.

http://euobserver.com/9/24884

with the words highlighted above, there is no doubt in my mind who calls the shots...

what further proof is needed in not believing what the partitionists are saying...ie...the title of this thread...what a joke...

and we get accussed of not wanting to meet the puppet...whats the point...

the sad part is that the way you are going, you gonna get steamrolled one day...big time...and by your own...

And then the TCs (and some in Turkey) complained and started cursing and yelling when Marcoullis, RoC FM, stated earlier last moth that it is the Turkish Army that dictates Turkey's foreign policy, and more so on issues such as Cyprus!

[Kifeas]

Dear Humanist I understand and appreciate your opinions, its been such a disaster which will NEVER be totally or fairly rectified for any party. My father lost very valuable lands outside Limossol too in Polemittga but unfortunately living in the past just brings bitterness and a lifetime has elapsed since then. The northern Cypriots have already lived a lifetime of depression and isolation, would it be fair to cause them more upheaval and uncertainty? What chance would they have to prosper when they have been the under dogs for so long? Lets try and look at both sides of the coin and not think only of the apparent physical issues of the past as the ongoing issues are more important as we live now not in the past and what previsions will be made for all this hardship they ENDURED and are still enduring? Who is thinking of the poor Cypriots? I would love to see a unified Cyprus as divided we fall and united we prosper. Joining the union in my opinion is the end of Cypriots and Cyprus as we knew it anyway. No more Cypriots just Europeans !!! As you know you didn't address the other issues I mentioned I'm just making the point that if any I feel that many Cypriots here have had a really raw deal !!!!!

So, what are you suggesting we do, "Kyreniaman?"

PS: Who are the northern Cypriots that you mention above?

[humanist]

Kyrenianman

Dear Humanist I understand and appreciate your opinions, its been such a disaster which will NEVER be totally or fairly rectified for any party. My father lost very valuable lands outside Limossol too in Polemittga but unfortunately living in the past just brings bitterness and a lifetime has elapsed since then. The northern Cypriots have already lived a lifetime of depression and isolation, would it be fair to cause them more upheaval and uncertainty? What chance would they have to prosper when they have been the under dogs for so long? Lets try and look at both sides of the coin and not think only of the apparent physical issues of the past as the ongoing issues are more important as we live now not in the past and what previsions will be made for all this hardship they ENDURED and are still enduring? Who is thinking of the poor Cypriots? I would love to see a unified Cyprus as divided we fall and united we prosper. Joining the union in my opinion is the end of Cypriots and Cyprus as we knew it anyway. No more Cypriots just Europeans !!! As you know you didn't address the other issues I mentioned I'm just making the point that if any I feel that many Cypriots here have had a really raw deal !!!!!

Dear Kyrenian, thank you for your post. Whilst I agree the it has been such a disaster I absolutely disagree with the word Never. I believe that if we all changed our personal views and persceptions that will lead to our children and future generations to have a different view of each other and therefore their world. One thing that I can simply think of right noiw is the creation of a Cypriot Sate for all Cypriots where children growup and are proud to be Cypriots, not Greek/ Turkish, just Cypriots. But I have discovered that very few foresighted individualas are able to do this.

Dear Kyrenian, I am sorry that your father has lost his land near Limassol, probably worth a lot of money today. I am not sure what his circumstances are or what the loss consists. However my understanding is that your father has the rigt to claim it back and I hope that he does or that you do on his behalf, with his permission of-course. Something that a lot of other Cypriots are not able to do. With this goes the right to freedom and choice and I get stuck on this issue. As I said before Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots and all Cypriots have the right to equal rights and opportuntities. To this end I believe that Cypriots who wish to stay ought to be given choices and options to remain in the North and those who wish to return ought to be given the same right to choos e to return or not. Then the compensation commision can work with those who do not wish to return.

According to other forum members Cyriots living in the North, are not worse off today than they were before 1974. To this end I can only draw my own conclussions as I do not know who to believe. I do read and observe what is going around me and my guess is that Cypriots living in the North are not better off today and they will be better off under Unified Cyprus.

Upheaval and uncertainty will be faced by all Cypriots my friend not only those in the north, I do appreciate that economically and sociially they will be affected much more. I do believe that if we correct it now future generations will be better off. I believe what Talat and Papdopoulos need to work on are the safeguard issues for people and not unification. Cyprus is one country for one people, let us acknowledge there are minorities whos rights need to be protected this is alll about laws, legislation and regulation. Equal Opportunty Commission to manage and deal with discrimination etc.


No one is thinking of the poor Cypriots, however the US government has up its antics against Turkey's violation on Cyprus in the past few months, Why do you think that is? They have smelled the oil.

I couldn't agree more about a United Cyprus. Unfortunately the only one who can change that is you with your family and your actions. Move to the South claim your land and claim your rights within Cyprus. Sell, buy, expand on your valuable land and in doing so you benefit your family and you are making a statement to the world that you are a Cypriot who is choosing the freedom to do what you wish with your land. This ofcourse may not be posssible as you have land in the north via the trnc land exchange. That is an issue for your and your family to contemplate on.

You are right joining the union means Cyprus is gonne. So I am not sure what to say on that. Other than the world is forever changing and if we embrace it our lives are made easier because what we resists persists. Perhaps the occupied area being out of the union is the best thing that could happen for those Cypriots now living there. Not sure I am not there to experience what you are experiencing each and everyday. My guess is that if we had leaders who really wanted Unification and truly respected and worked together we could still under a unified Cyprus maintain the Cypriot culture.

I am not sure what other points you are referring too. Sometimes I choose not to respond to points or issues that I feel are attacking because experience on this forum tells me that things get messy and people insult each other and sometimes I cannot answer them because I am no politician nor do I want to be. I am no lawyer and have no answers and sometimes I get emotional about issues and choose not to participate as I say things that I don't mean.

I agree that all Cypriots are having a rw deal, I am also learning that the leadership on both sides is incompetend to solve the issue so it is up to individuals to change that. Just like the Cypriot who has openned his kebab shop in the free area of Cyprus and when I come to Cyprus later on this month I will go and have a kebab to support him if I am not called names I willbe happy to respond if I can to your coments that you feel I did not respond too. So let me know.

regards
Andreas