Pyropolizer, your wrote in response to my questions (not my assumption) "Do Greek Cypriots have a right of self-determination ?
Do Turkish Cypriots have a right of self-determination ?" ....
The answer to both is NO, they do not have a separate self determination right. The Cypriots as a whole have a self determination right. This includes GCs, Tcs, Maronite Cypriots, Armenian Cypriots, Latin Cypriots etc. None of the communities or minorities of Cyprus complies with the definition of "a people" set by UN.
Pyropolizer,
There is a difference between saying "X doesn't have a right of self-determination" and "I don't recognise/agree with X having a right of self-determination". Furthermore, even that X does have a right of self-determination does not tell us how far or in what form that self-determination can be expressed. For example, I think that Scots have a right of self-determination, secondly I recognise that right of self-determination and also I think that can go as far as total sovereign independence from the UK. Someone else might agree with the first two elements but argue that Scottish self-determination meets its limit at a National Assembly of Scotland. And of course there are other permutations.
Coming back to the Cyprus example, isn't any proposal for a bi-communal, bi-zonal or indeed any federal solution predicated on the recognition of the right to self-determination of TCs (and indeed GCs) ? The differences are that some people argue that a full expression of the TC right to self-determination would be found in a separate & sovereign state, whilst others argue that TC self-determination could be secured and confirmed in a federal state.
Further to your post, the UN has studiously
avoided defining a 'people' for purposes of self-determination or anything else. Again, you will not find in any UN documents attempts to define a 'people' or even a 'nation'. The clearest that one finds are vague and general statements such as 'shared culture' but with no attempt to offer criteria as to what is meant by a shared culture. (see more below).
Pyropolizer, you go on to say that
I am sorry CopperLine but your whole argumentation is based on wrong assumptions.
The odd thing is that when I ask questions or point to historical evidence - which is how I have frequently added comment to this thread - they have been met by scorn from some other posters who themselves are making gross assumptions if not to say wild speculative guesses as to my purpose and meanings. By asking questions I am trying not to make assumptions, instead I am trying to find out what people think and why. So I'd reject your claim that my argument is based on wrong assumptions- on the contrary, I'm asking questions and I am pointing to statements, evidence, laws etc which are not of my making and are not assumptions I have made.
KifeasSo you accidentally mistook the
Universal declaration of human rights," instead of "the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,
Apart from the fact that they share only one word, and that they deal with quite different things, and that ICCPR had not been mentioned, I suppose it is an easy 'accident' to make. You'll also know, I'm sure, that ICCPR is a UN General Assembly Resolution and therefore does not have the status of international law such as that of the UN Charter, even the UDHR or treaty law. It is what is called 'soft law' and to that extent is not legally binding.
Pyropolizer, You'll see in Article 1.1 "1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development." It does not say who these people are or how they are defined. Thus it doesn't say that a people means a 'national group' and therefore 'sub-national groups' are not to be accorded the right of self-determination. So even if one accepted your argument that Cypriots constituted a 'national group', the ICCPR does not say that, as sub-national groups GCs or TCs do not constitute a people and therefore do not have a right of self-determination. Granted, this is only to take the ICCPR text, but you will not find in UN or international legal instruments any tighter or closer definition of what a people is nor whom the principle of self-determination are to apply to or are not to apply to.
KifeasHave you read the references in the above two documents about people's self-determination right? I bet you haven't
Kifeas, this is pathetic and juvenile. Grow up. Or should I collect my winnings from your foolish bet ?
