Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Although GCs want us to accept minority rights in a GC state they are reluctant to reverse the table an become a minority in a TC state, why is that??

First of all, as Kifeas said, there is no "GC state" but a Cypriot state where GCs happen to be the majority and TCs the minority.

We didn't ask you to become a minority in Cyprus. You are the ones who choose to invade us and come here, remember? So if you don't like the fact that you are a minority in Cyprus then go back from where you came from.

Based on what you are asking the GCs who outnumber the TCs 1 to 5 in every part of Cyprus, to become a minority? Do you think we are still living under the Ottoman rule?

There is a total GC state called "RoC" who runs it? who elects your representatives? who represents you abroad? who runs your country? obviously GCs....if you are blind to this fact then that's your problem not mine.

I come from the island of Cyprus and I belong here so I and other TCs will not be going anywhere.

What we are asking for is our share if this is 18 you know I am even willing to reduce to this size but only certain land disputes issues have been settled by independent international experts, the finding fo which we will all agree to without any objections.

The RoC is run democratically by all law obeying Cyprus citizens. GCs, Armenian Cypriots, Maronites, Latin Cypriots etc. If you stop acting illegally and criminally against Cyprus then you could participate in running RoC as well.

What you are not just asking, but forcefully took with brute force is not your "fair share". And "land disputes" between whom? The whole of Cyprus belongs to the one and only state in Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus. Beyond that there is an illegal Turkish occupation of part of Cyprus, and there is absolutely no dispute about that.

[Piratis]

So according to VP, when an area is the homeland of 82 GCs and 18 TCs, that area should not be administered by GCs, it should not be administered by all people together in a democratic way one person one vote, but it should be administered by the TCs alone. And he is asking us why we would not accept that

As I told you before, in the villages and areas that TCs are legally the majority I wouldn't have a problem if the local administrators are TCs. But you have absolutely no right to demand that you should administer areas that have a GC majority.

Why do you have problems sharing? I am not saying GCs cannot travel freely and settle in the North state, they can but the real question is why do you want to force us to live in a GC state run by GCs but would never accept the reverse, so why are you trying to force your will on us?

Do you really believe that GCs would be a majority in the North state I would be suprised if more than 20% of refugees woudl return.

Of course we would accept the reverse. Aren't there Greeks living in Turkey as a minority?

What you are asking from us is not "sharing". It is for part of our country which is the homeland of 5+ times more GCs that TCs to be declared officially Turkish and be run exclusively by TCs.

What we do not accept is to be ethnically cleansed from our homeland and for our rights to be violated. This is the 21st century and not the middle ages that the Turks could just invade, capture and rule land that does not belong to them.

[Viewpoint]

Although GCs want us to accept minority rights in a GC state they are reluctant to reverse the table an become a minority in a TC state, why is that??

First of all, as Kifeas said, there is no "GC state" but a Cypriot state where GCs happen to be the majority and TCs the minority.

We didn't ask you to become a minority in Cyprus. You are the ones who choose to invade us and come here, remember? So if you don't like the fact that you are a minority in Cyprus then go back from where you came from.

Based on what you are asking the GCs who outnumber the TCs 1 to 5 in every part of Cyprus, to become a minority? Do you think we are still living under the Ottoman rule?

There is a total GC state called "RoC" who runs it? who elects your representatives? who represents you abroad? who runs your country? obviously GCs....if you are blind to this fact then that's your problem not mine.

I come from the island of Cyprus and I belong here so I and other TCs will not be going anywhere.

What we are asking for is our share if this is 18 you know I am even willing to reduce to this size but only certain land disputes issues have been settled by independent international experts, the finding fo which we will all agree to without any objections.

The RoC is run democratically by all law obeying Cyprus citizens. GCs, Armenian Cypriots, Maronites, Latin Cypriots etc. If you stop acting illegally and criminally against Cyprus then you could participate in running RoC as well.

What you are not just asking, but forcefully took with brute force is not your "fair share". And "land disputes" between whom? The whole of Cyprus belongs to the one and only state in Cyprus, the Republic of Cyprus. Beyond that there is an illegal Turkish occupation of part of Cyprus, and there is absolutely no dispute about that.

Piratis do you know or are you even aware that we TCs do not feel part of, or that the "RoC" belongs to us. For us it is a GC state run by GCs for GCs.

We have discussed many times the past and reasons that have brought us to division/stalemate and to go there again would be counter productive as we have opposing positions and viewpoints. Your sudden surge of Cypriotism which is just to little to late it is not an influencing factor anymore as many years have passed and therefore does not instill much confidence in people on this side of the divide to trust GCs.

We TCs are not against unification on the whole but like me have lost faith in any sort of progress so the only alternative is to accept that we will never bridge the chasm of the 2 communities and make the best of the current stalemate and work for recognition if it occurs then it will indeed be a bonus.

[Viewpoint]

So according to VP, when an area is the homeland of 82 GCs and 18 TCs, that area should not be administered by GCs, it should not be administered by all people together in a democratic way one person one vote, but it should be administered by the TCs alone. And he is asking us why we would not accept that

As I told you before, in the villages and areas that TCs are legally the majority I wouldn't have a problem if the local administrators are TCs. But you have absolutely no right to demand that you should administer areas that have a GC majority.

Why do you have problems sharing? I am not saying GCs cannot travel freely and settle in the North state, they can but the real question is why do you want to force us to live in a GC state run by GCs but would never accept the reverse, so why are you trying to force your will on us?

Do you really believe that GCs would be a majority in the North state I would be suprised if more than 20% of refugees woudl return.

Of course we would accept the reverse. Aren't there Greeks living in Turkey as a minority?

What you are asking from us is not "sharing". It is for part of our country which is the homeland of 5+ times more GCs that TCs to be declared officially Turkish and be run exclusively by TCs.

What we do not accept is to be ethnically cleansed from our homeland and for our rights to be violated. This is the 21st century and not the middle ages that the Turks could just invade, capture and rule land that does not belong to them.

I doubt very much the GCs would live under a TC administration look out some of the outdated views expressed from some of the GC contributors they think people in the TRNC live in the dark ages, well they obviously have not been to the north.

Piratis I feel I have to ask this question as you seem to have the wrong idea about what I want, Could you please in all honesty tell me what it is you think I want after all the debates we have had?

[MR-from-NG]

For some strange reason whenever I read a post from Piraits I get a feeling of deja vu.

[Piratis]

Piratis do you know or are you even aware that we TCs do not feel part of, or that the "RoC" belongs to us. For us it is a GC state run by GCs for GCs.

We have discussed many times the past and reasons that have brought us to division/stalemate and to go there again would be counter productive as we have opposing positions and viewpoints. Your sudden surge of Cypriotism which is just to little to late it is not an influencing factor anymore as many years have passed and therefore does not instill much confidence in people on this side of the divide to trust GCs.

We TCs are not against unification on the whole but like me have lost faith in any sort of progress so the only alternative is to accept that we will never bridge the chasm of the 2 communities and make the best of the current stalemate and work for recognition if it occurs then it will indeed be a bonus.

You can feel whatever you want and trust or not whomever you want. What you don't have the right is to steal our land and commit illegalities.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you for the history lesson Kifeas very interesting and you have a valid point, the only this is you are not alone throughout history these matters have repeated themselves and believe it or not people do survive and continue on. Is human safety, prosperity and peace of mind more important than historical monuments and graveyards that you may see and use whenever you wish as you will be able to travel and live wherever you wish, the only this you have a problem with is living under a TC administration just like we do not want to live under a GC one. Why not admit it although you want force us to live in a GC state you cannot comprehend living a TC state, isn't this being highly hypocritical.

Yes VP, for us they are more important than our mere safety and well being as a people without heritage; that is why we will never sign them away! I understand that for you it is very difficult to understand the importance that they have for us, since as a people you do not have a very important and long history -at least associated with this country; that is why you do not care and are also ready to lose the very few and comparatively recent -just a couple of centuries old, mosques and ottoman baths that exist in the south! For us however, it is an entirely different situation, which I admit you are by default unable to comprehend!

You maybe right in what you say but for us safety and well being are paramount as we feel what you feel just by living on this island among our own community. Its only a change in oerspective as we to love this island just as much you do this has nothing to do with how far back our ancestary goes, but I am not demanding you are not able to roam freely and use churches or visit historical sites.

[Piratis]

So according to VP, when an area is the homeland of 82 GCs and 18 TCs, that area should not be administered by GCs, it should not be administered by all people together in a democratic way one person one vote, but it should be administered by the TCs alone. And he is asking us why we would not accept that

As I told you before, in the villages and areas that TCs are legally the majority I wouldn't have a problem if the local administrators are TCs. But you have absolutely no right to demand that you should administer areas that have a GC majority.

Why do you have problems sharing? I am not saying GCs cannot travel freely and settle in the North state, they can but the real question is why do you want to force us to live in a GC state run by GCs but would never accept the reverse, so why are you trying to force your will on us?

Do you really believe that GCs would be a majority in the North state I would be suprised if more than 20% of refugees woudl return.

Of course we would accept the reverse. Aren't there Greeks living in Turkey as a minority?

What you are asking from us is not "sharing". It is for part of our country which is the homeland of 5+ times more GCs that TCs to be declared officially Turkish and be run exclusively by TCs.

What we do not accept is to be ethnically cleansed from our homeland and for our rights to be violated. This is the 21st century and not the middle ages that the Turks could just invade, capture and rule land that does not belong to them.

I doubt very much the GCs would live under a TC administration look out some of the outdated views expressed from some of the GC contributors they think people in the TRNC live in the dark ages, well they obviously have not been to the north.

Piratis I feel I have to ask this question as you seem to have the wrong idea about what I want, Could you please in all honesty tell me what it is you think I want after all the debates we have had?

What right out of the middle ages is your idea that you can just grab land by force, ethnically cleanse most of its population, replace them with foreigners, and declare that part of land your own separate country.

What you want is clear: To officially Turkify the north part of our country despite the fact that is the homeland of 5+ times more GCs than TCs.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis do you know or are you even aware that we TCs do not feel part of, or that the "RoC" belongs to us. For us it is a GC state run by GCs for GCs.

We have discussed many times the past and reasons that have brought us to division/stalemate and to go there again would be counter productive as we have opposing positions and viewpoints. Your sudden surge of Cypriotism which is just to little to late it is not an influencing factor anymore as many years have passed and therefore does not instill much confidence in people on this side of the divide to trust GCs.

We TCs are not against unification on the whole but like me have lost faith in any sort of progress so the only alternative is to accept that we will never bridge the chasm of the 2 communities and make the best of the current stalemate and work for recognition if it occurs then it will indeed be a bonus.

You can feel whatever you want and trust or not whomever you want. What you don't have the right is to steal our land and commit illegalities.

Piratis you are locked in a room saying the same thing over and over again but no one is doing anything to let you out I wonder why? must tell you something, maybe you are going about demanding what you want the wrong way..I have only read 1 post of yours where you actually made an effort to incorporate an understanding of TCs, I feel deep down you do want to compromise and find a solution that both sides can commit to but you take the easy way out and quote the same parrot style sentences so you don't have to deal with the reality of the situation and produce proposals that ar enot hardline and unreachable on day 1.

[T_C]

Last summer I was visiting Salamina ruins, and nearby me there was one Turkish lady tour guide accompanying a group of British tourists. At some stage, another lady tourist asked her what those (ancient Greek) engraved letters on the walls were saying, and if they were Turkish! The guide went red and replied, “I am sorry, I think they are Chinese and I will have to ask somebody to translate them if you are interested!” Another time in Voufavento castle, the male Turkish tour guide was telling some other tourists that the castle was built by the Franks! Setting aside that it predated the Frankish period; he said it such a way as if Frankish workers came from France and built it with their own hands, and not the hands of our GC ancestors that did all the work and carried the stones up there! And you tell me there is a chance in a billion to ever sign away our treasures and heritage, especially to people that try to hide away the fact that the GCs have ever existed in the north of Cyprus and that nearly all of these monuments that they so proudly show to the tourists, historically and culturaly are mostly associated with them (GCs!)

Oh come off it Kifeas! No one in Cyprus denies that the ruins are Greek! I've been there myself so many times. It's quite funny because every GC comes out with this story once in a while, I've heard it many times on this and other forums. How they went to Salamis ruins and asked what the writing was in and they told them it was something that isn't Greek...PATHETIC! It's nothing more than an urban legend!!!!