Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

VP, my address is Alexander Street Number 8, Famagusta, across the street from the Labor Unions new building. Ready to return anytime. Care to make the arrangements?

As I said I personally cant give back property you would have to apply to the property commission for that but I can arrange for them to rent an office and operate from there if they wish, let me know.

Yes VP, a soon as the ECHR will tell us to apply to Turkey's "property commission" in the north, rest sure that you will be flooded with applications from most of the 200,000 GCs refugees! And then you will become the laughing stock of the whole of Europe and the court itself, for there is no way you will be able to find the more than 25 billions of Euros that you will need in order to compensate all of us for mere loss of use and access, based on the guidelines of the court in Loizidou and Aresti cases! Furthermore, I want to see how you will be able to make the matching of the land value gap; unless of course if you believe that the mere 0.41 millions of donums of TC land in the south, all of which worth only about 17 billions of Euros (and from this you will have to subtract some 30% belonging to TCs that did not "exchange" their tittles with the Denktash regime,) will be enough to match the 1.45 millions of donums of GC property in the north that its value is estimated around 85 billion Euros!

And do not expect us to wait for more than a year after we apply to Turkey's property commission, before running back to the ECHR, in case you delay to examine our applications!

Poor you! You think you have just invented the wheel, with your “property commission,” but soon you will discover that there is no way you can escape from the consequences of your attempted theft!

If what you say is the case then I will support your application to the ECHR in which case Turkey will have to pay anyway at the end of the process, the property commission allows Turkey the opportunity to pay up and buy up a great deal of land and settle matters once and for all. If they can buy up another the balance to 27% and then return the balance then as many of you support we can move on towards agreed partition. Many GCs have relaized how this issue may develop so I cannot see the majority of GCs applying to the property commission as confirmed by your administration warning GC refugess not to apply. The exchange of land beween a TC and GC being discussed at the moment if runbber stamped by the ECHR this will be another important development.

[Nikitas]

VP do you mind reading aain the lines you wrote in response to Armenian Cypriot!

That text is pure racism, read what it says. Because you sided with the Greek Cypriots. So the criterion of taking someone's land and denying him his patrimony is only racial! Because they are Greek Cypriots, and not because they are responsible for any wrongdoing against you. You do not look to see if the person has in fact participated in crimes against you.

And do tell us what the Armenians and the Maronites, Latins and Gypsied did against you so they are excluded from your sceme of things.

Essentially you simply want a "Turks only" little statelet and the rest of what you say is just empty rationalisation.

[Viewpoint]

VP do you mind reading aain the lines you wrote in response to Armenian Cypriot!

That text is pure racism, read what it says. Because you sided with the Greek Cypriots. So the criterion of taking someone's land and denying him his patrimony is only racial! Because they are Greek Cypriots, and not because they are responsible for any wrongdoing against you. You do not look to see if the person has in fact participated in crimes against you.

And do tell us what the Armenians and the Maronites, Latins and Gypsied did against you so they are excluded from your sceme of things.

Essentially you simply want a "Turks only" little statelet and the rest of what you say is just empty rationalisation.

Are we at dispute with GCs? have we been able to agree a solution with GCs? who did the small minorities throw their % in with?

[humanist]

Pyrpolizer, I wish to go a step further to say that in relation to the people in Karpaz who remained there after the invasion in 1974 the cruelest saddest thing that I had read is thet the Turks confiscated their land and gave it away to either settlers or Cypriots who speak Turkish. That is not considered unjust and ufair by out TC friends on this forum, however the embargo does. Like Nikitas said this victim notion is running thin.

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer, I wish to go a step further to say that in relation to the people in Karpaz who remained there after the invasion in 1974 the cruelest saddest thing that I had read is thet the Turks confiscated their land and gave it away to either settlers or Cypriots who speak Turkish. That is not considered unjust and ufair by out TC friends on this forum, however the embargo does. Like Nikitas said this victim notion is running thin.

Pretty much the same menality of GCs during the 1960s and actions taken against TCs which GCs today have no problem with and even support.

[humanist]

yes VP I agree with you.

[Kifeas]

VP, my address is Alexander Street Number 8, Famagusta, across the street from the Labor Unions new building. Ready to return anytime. Care to make the arrangements?

As I said I personally cant give back property you would have to apply to the property commission for that but I can arrange for them to rent an office and operate from there if they wish, let me know.

Yes VP, a soon as the ECHR will tell us to apply to Turkey's "property commission" in the north, rest sure that you will be flooded with applications from most of the 200,000 GCs refugees! And then you will become the laughing stock of the whole of Europe and the court itself, for there is no way you will be able to find the more than 25 billions of Euros that you will need in order to compensate all of us for mere loss of use and access, based on the guidelines of the court in Loizidou and Aresti cases! Furthermore, I want to see how you will be able to make the matching of the land value gap; unless of course if you believe that the mere 0.41 millions of donums of TC land in the south, all of which worth only about 17 billions of Euros (and from this you will have to subtract some 30% belonging to TCs that did not "exchange" their tittles with the Denktash regime,) will be enough to match the 1.45 millions of donums of GC property in the north that its value is estimated around 85 billion Euros!

And do not expect us to wait for more than a year after we apply to Turkey's property commission, before running back to the ECHR, in case you delay to examine our applications!

Poor you! You think you have just invented the wheel, with your “property commission,” but soon you will discover that there is no way you can escape from the consequences of your attempted theft!

If what you say is the case then I will support your application to the ECHR in which case Turkey will have to pay anyway at the end of the process, the property commission allows Turkey the opportunity to pay up and buy up a great deal of land and settle matters once and for all. If they can buy up another the balance to 27% and then return the balance then as many of you support we can move on towards agreed partition. Many GCs have relaized how this issue may develop so I cannot see the majority of GCs applying to the property commission as confirmed by your administration warning GC refugess not to apply. The exchange of land beween a TC and GC being discussed at the moment if runbber stamped by the ECHR this will be another important development.

No dear VP, it is impossible for economically and morally corrupted mamma Turkey to find all these billions of Euros to compensate us! But even if we hypothetically assume that your “mother” will somehow let its people to starve or its army to degrade, so that it will corrupt you further by providing these money, how will you be able to compensate us for the loss of our cultural and historical heritage associated with this part of our 3,500 years ancestral homeland? How will you compensate us for the loss of our ancestor’s graveyards? Will you unearth all the bones of our more 20 million ancestors that died and were buried in the north during the last 3,500 years, and give them to us to burry them again in the south? How will you compensate us for the loss of our numerous historical churches and monasteries of 2,000 years of age?

With what money in this world will you ever be able to compensate us for the graveyard and monastery of Apostle Barnavas, the founder of the GC Christian Orthodox Church? With what money will you ever be able to compensate us for the loss of our 3,000 y.o. Salamina, the first independed GC city kingdom in Cyprus where Teukros and Evagoras -our two very important ancestor kings are also buried? With what money in this planet will you ever compensate us for Kanakaria church, the oldest GC orthodox charge in Cyprus, for Antifonitis, for St. Andreas monastery, for Kyrenia, the town built by our ancestor Kifeas who is also buried there, for Lapithos built by our very important ancestor Praxandros -who is also buried there;for Kantara, st Hilarion and Voufavento castles, which were all built with the hands, blood and the sweat of our ancestors carring stones high up on those hills, etc, etc, etc, etc.

No VP, not even if you sell the whole of Turkey will you ever be able to find so much money to be able to compensate us for the loss of our history and our heritage! Just forget it! If you do not change your attitudes, and if you do not come to your senses, unfortunately this country will never experience peace, and will only experience more and more bloodshed!

[Viewpoint]

Thank you for the history lesson Kifeas very interesting and you have a valid point, the only this is you are not alone throughout history these matters have repeated themselves and believe it or not people do survive and continue on. Is human safety, prosperity and peace of mind more important than historical monuments and graveyards that you may see and use whenever you wish as you will be able to travel and live wherever you wish, the only this you have a problem with is living under a TC administration just like we do not want to live under a GC one. Why not admit it although you want force us to live in a GC state you cannot comprehend living a TC state, isn't this being highly hypocritical.

[Kifeas]

Thank you for the history lesson Kifeas very interesting and you have a valid point, the only this is you are not alone throughout history these matters have repeated themselves and believe it or not people do survive and continue on. Is human safety, prosperity and peace of mind more important than historical monuments and graveyards that you may see and use whenever you wish as you will be able to travel and live wherever you wish, the only this you have a problem with is living under a TC administration just like we do not want to live under a GC one. Why not admit it although you want force us to live in a GC state you cannot comprehend living a TC state, isn't this being highly hypocritical.

Yes VP, for us they are more important than our mere safety and well being as a people without heritage; that is why we will never sign them away! I understand that for you it is very difficult to understand the importance that they have for us, since as a people you do not have a very important and long history -at least associated with this country; that is why you do not care and are also ready to lose the very few and comparatively recent -just a couple of centuries old, mosques and ottoman baths that exist in the south! For us however, it is an entirely different situation, which I admit you are by default unable to comprehend!

[Kifeas]

Last summer I was visiting Salamina ruins, and nearby me there was one Turkish lady tour guide accompanying a group of British tourists. At some stage, another lady tourist asked her what those (ancient Greek) engraved letters on the walls were saying, and if they were Turkish! The guide went red and replied, “I am sorry, I think they are Chinese and I will have to ask somebody to translate them if you are interested!” Another time in Voufavento castle, the male Turkish tour guide was telling some other tourists that the castle was built by the Franks! Setting aside that it predated the Frankish period; he said it such a way as if Frankish workers came from France and built it with their own hands, and not the hands of our GC ancestors that did all the work and carried the stones up there! And you tell me there is a chance in a billion to ever sign away our treasures and heritage, especially to people that try to hide away the fact that the GCs have ever existed in the north of Cyprus and that nearly all of these monuments that they so proudly show to the tourists, historically and culturaly are mostly associated with them (GCs!)