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withdrawal of troops

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: withdrawal of troops

Postby oranos64 » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:38 pm

murf62 wrote:
theodore wrote:Here in America many agree with the voice of many Cypriots for the withdrawal of troops from Cyprus.
I am sure "many" in America have probably never heard of Cyprus and even the ones who have "many" will not be able to point to it on an Atlas. The last time I was in America (San Diego), I was asked by a bloke on a bus if I've ever met Queen Victoria. :D x1000000

Having said that, I'm sure Mr Bush will sort out the Cyprus problem just as soon as he's finished conquering the Middle East. Until then, they will have to wait in the queue I'm afraid. ;)



:D x100000

nice reply ....so true ...i told a guy i was from cyprus when i was in new york ... guy thought i ment cyprus valley ,california ..

U.S does not give a sqat for cyprus ... just its own security and interests in the middle east

namely that isreal is happy ,that Turkey is happy as an allie (ensuring their membership into E.U so they can cut funding them with foreign aid )
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Postby Murataga » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:43 pm

DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Murataga wrote:
oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?



The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.


if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it? :roll:

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.



Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!


hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.



Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:



this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.


The point is that there is no trust DT...Why do you keep missing that point. Lets get talking and come to a fair agreement and then the army can be addressed....It is not going to come first from either side...The "RoC" would not stand a chance against Turkey so why the hell are they ordering more tanks...Internal conflict maybe...After the Turkish army has gone....Bit too fishy for me I am afraid :roll: :roll: :roll:


You asked me for more info on that troop advance!!

As for your other point, I take what copperline said before. You can take steps to lead to a comprehensive solution. The path you take with these steps will make the solution easier. What the hell could be wrong about living on an island with no troops and guns?


Absolutely nothing if we have recognition. Try "taking a path for solution" that involves some balance in compromises - than we you`ll have our attention.
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Postby theodore » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:53 pm

[quote="humanist"]hey theodore can we share Jesus christ or is he exclussively for Cyprus LOL ;)[/quote]



#################
Jesus Christ is FOR ALL THE WORLD including Cyprus.
Here in America we say "GOD BLESS AMERICA" and in Cyprus they should say GOD BLESS CYPRUS .....

PS. I am off to work at this time I will get back with more total answer.
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Postby theodore » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:59 pm

[quote="free_cyprus"]why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking[/quote]

##########
Because Turkey and Greece there mother lands declare war on them.
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Postby DT. » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:09 pm

Murataga wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
Kifeas wrote:
Murataga wrote:
oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?



The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.


if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it? :roll:

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.



Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!


hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.



Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:



this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.


The point is that there is no trust DT...Why do you keep missing that point. Lets get talking and come to a fair agreement and then the army can be addressed....It is not going to come first from either side...The "RoC" would not stand a chance against Turkey so why the hell are they ordering more tanks...Internal conflict maybe...After the Turkish army has gone....Bit too fishy for me I am afraid :roll: :roll: :roll:


You asked me for more info on that troop advance!!

As for your other point, I take what copperline said before. You can take steps to lead to a comprehensive solution. The path you take with these steps will make the solution easier. What the hell could be wrong about living on an island with no troops and guns?


Absolutely nothing if we have recognition. Try "taking a path for solution" that involves some balance in compromises - than we you`ll have our attention.


You can forget recognition. Thats not a compromise thats a Game Over. ANything that may lead up to recognition as well is also a NO-NO.

Anyway why you so strung up on recognition. VP and Eric Dayi have been singing old Turkish war anthems for the past 2 days about how little recognition matters to the TC's.
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Postby theodore » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:13 pm

[quote="Murataga"][quote="CopperLine"]The main problems with proposals to 'withdraw troops' are that (i) there is great reluctance to be first mover, (ii) it doesn't necessarily lead to feeling more secure, and (iii) it has the obvious flipside of troop build-up or return.

What might be considered instead is [b]demilitarisation[/b]. This has the prospect instead, it seems to me, of (a) enhancing security for all parties, (b) diminish tensions, (c) build mutual confidence and (d) save a lot of money and resources. Furthermore demilitarisation of the island could be done without prejudice to nor dependent on broader a broader political settlement. Additionally demilitarisation of the island would address the outrage which is the British sovereign bases.

What might demilitarisation entail ? Maybe the disbandment of RoC and TRNC armed forces and their complete substitution with civil and unarmed police forces. Perhaps the commitment to rescind basing rights to foreign militaries (whose current justifications for continued deployment is the military threat/insecuirty posed by the other side); so in removing the threat you remove the justification for foreign military presence and assistance. Perhaps the creation of trans-Green Line 'peace parks' could be the first step. In a 'peace park', which is usually a common ecological zone bisected by a border, the norm is to exclude ALL military activities, personnel and materials. There are of course avenues to pursue other than these quick suggestions.

What could be the objections to such a proposal ? (I have a number in mind, but I wonder what Forum members might think).[/quote]

I disagree with the TC demilitarization and here is why:

Firstly, you are asking the side outnumbered 1 to 4 in this conflict to disarm as if their vulnerability would be the same with the other in a demilitarized environment in Cyprus; historical and present facts of Cyprus suggests otherwise. Secondly, your proposal is based on the assumption that the military presence of both sides is equivalently a nuisance to the both sides hence demilitarisation is an equivalent favor to both sides - no. I couldn`t care less about the National Guard now, but I know the vice versa isn`t true. The rights they have taken away from me is a matter still on the table for discussion only and only because I have my military to keep it on the table. Unfortunately, military might is the language these people will understand and this proposal takes that away from me without returning+guaranteeing me my rights.

Consequently, I find your proposal unbalanced and given the past and current agenda/actions of the GC leadership quite unfair to the TC side. I do not see the demilitarization of the two sides as a compromise to the GC side at all – to the contrary it is music to their ears because unfortunately our military might seems to be the only thing that stands between their complete rein over Cyprus and the current status. This proposal is the final golden trophy to the GC side for their criminal policies/actions over the TCs for almost half a century - unsuprisingly two GC members immediately expressed to be in favor of the proposal. I strongly believe that demilitarization may perhaps be considered fair and reasonable only and only under the circumstances where both sides have full recognition.[/quote]


#############
Sorry recognizing Northern Cyprus will never happen because first the embargo with our weapon's in 1974 against Cyprus, Stolen property, ethnic cleansing of the GC and there human rights broken as long as i have something to do at the hill this will never happen.
You are taking of your rights what exactly are you talking about what about the GC rights
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:01 pm

Keep up your arrogant and despot attitude and there will be no land ot hand back in 100 years and the world would have accept the current divide as permanet...well done keep up the good work.
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Postby DT. » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:11 am

Viewpoint wrote:Keep up your arrogant and despot attitude and there will be no land ot hand back in 100 years and the world would have accept the current divide as permanet...well done keep up the good work.


reminds me of someone....Oh yeah, the King of England! Now how did Wallace reply back to him?

Lower your flags and march straight back to England, stopping at every home to beg forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape, and murder.
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Postby Eric dayi » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:21 am

DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Keep up your arrogant and despot attitude and there will be no land ot hand back in 100 years and the world would have accept the current divide as permanet...well done keep up the good work.


reminds me of someone....Oh yeah, the King of England! Now how did Wallace reply back to him?

Lower your flags and march straight back to England, stopping at every home to beg forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape, and murder.


Your people, with the help of the murdering EOKA scums and Greece should, for the attempted genocide on us Tcs, murdering TC men, women and even 16 days old babies, burying our people alive hands tied to their backs with barbed wire, raping our women and trying to steal our lands, be begging us TCs for forgiveness.
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Postby DT. » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:43 pm

Eric dayi wrote:
DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Keep up your arrogant and despot attitude and there will be no land ot hand back in 100 years and the world would have accept the current divide as permanet...well done keep up the good work.


reminds me of someone....Oh yeah, the King of England! Now how did Wallace reply back to him?

Lower your flags and march straight back to England, stopping at every home to beg forgiveness for a hundred years of theft, rape, and murder.


Your people, with the help of the murdering EOKA scums and Greece should, for the attempted genocide on us Tcs, murdering TC men, women and even 16 days old babies, burying our people alive hands tied to their backs with barbed wire, raping our women and trying to steal our lands, be begging us TCs for forgiveness.


check your history mujahedin. Check the deaths and rapes your troops enjoyed executing, check the atrocities and then check the numbers they did it in.....then you can respond back with the muerders committed by a handful of GC's which my family fought against.

I must apologise though, I shuldn't expect too much from uni-cellular organisms such as you.
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