Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Got to run so can't explain fully ....

In shorthand, we can all guess at what the real intentions are of different military forces are. Some of those guesses might be more reliable, might be more informed than others, but they are still guesses and therefore lend themselves to uncertainty. There are only a few very short steps between uncertainty and fear.

Thus on the basis that we can never be certain what militaries are planning nor what they regard as security or insecurity, and therefore on the basis that we can't or don't know their intentions, the proposal to demilitarise is essentially one that takes away the capacity of the militaries to implement their otherwise mysterious intentions.

Demilitarisation is often the best way forward precisely where there is a massive assymetry in power. .... but this is a longer story .... got to go ..

[DT.]

oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?

The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.

if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it?

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.

Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!

hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.

Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all

this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.

[Mills Chapman]

This thread is certainly moving at a fast "pages/day" rate. It's always interesting to see which threads grow at the fastest rates in the shortest amounts of time.

[zan]

oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?

The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.

if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it?

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.

Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!

hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.

Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all

this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.

The point is that there is no trust DT...Why do you keep missing that point. Lets get talking and come to a fair agreement and then the army can be addressed....It is not going to come first from either side...The "RoC" would not stand a chance against Turkey so why the hell are they ordering more tanks...Internal conflict maybe...After the Turkish army has gone....Bit too fishy for me I am afraid

[DT.]

oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?

The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.

if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it?

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.

Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!

hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.

Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all

this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.

The point is that there is no trust DT...Why do you keep missing that point. Lets get talking and come to a fair agreement and then the army can be addressed....It is not going to come first from either side...The "RoC" would not stand a chance against Turkey so why the hell are they ordering more tanks...Internal conflict maybe...After the Turkish army has gone....Bit too fishy for me I am afraid

You asked me for more info on that troop advance!!

As for your other point, I take what copperline said before. You can take steps to lead to a comprehensive solution. The path you take with these steps will make the solution easier. What the hell could be wrong about living on an island with no troops and guns?

[zan]

oh, no need to remind of my wrong... I hold the worst punishable thing one can carry on his shoulders in Cyprus: born and proud to be a Turkish Cypriot.

Okay Murataga, I heard your pleads! That is why I offered you 18% of my country, for you and the rest of your community to go and leave there, completely separately from us GCs that have such feelings against your TC “ethnicity,” and I even promised you to built a 12 meter wall separating the two areas, so that there is no chance for contact with each other or any GC intrusions into the north for the purpose of annihilating your “people!” What else do you want? I even said you can keep all your troops there to protect you! What are you waiting for? Why are you wasting your time?

The whole point is that you are using the Turkish army as the rod with which to beat us with. They are there, as Murataga has said until a settlement is reached and then we either have our own army or the one according to the Zurich agreement all be it on new terms AFTER negotiations. The withdrawal of the Turkish army is not the be all and end all of the problem and the chances of it helping the "RoC" to start proper discussions is nil so lets cut the crap. They are no threat to you but are protectors to us. The price we have to pay for that more than outweighs the good they do in my country.

As I have mentioned before, the chance of war increases without their overwhelming presence. The deterrent is there and it has kept you at bay for over 40 years. They are going nowhere. They have no relevance on how and when discussions should take place. If they do then it is just the same old lame excuse you have been using over and over again and the world has stopped listening to that old rubbish. In the same way Greece is pulling the strings in the "RoC" they can have their influence whether they are on the island or not so the argument is defunct even before it is started.

if you think we're not threatened by the presence of an army that has attacked us before then you are out of touch with reality and what the GC concerns really are. The Turkish army has invaded, killed and raped our countrymen why would we ever harbour ill feelings against it?

And how the hell can we feel safe with 30,000 Turkish goose steppers pointing their guns at us when only a few years ago they advanced another 100 metres in Strovillia.

Perhaps Bir would assure you that nothing will happen. The fact that the "RoC" has ordered 40 new tanks does not bother me so why should Turkey bother you. Incidents of intrusions into the border and taking down of flags would have had much greater implications had the Turkish army not been there. I am sorry tthat there was a shooting but that is exactly the point. Say it happened with only a handful of TCs protecting us..We would have been attacked and the excuse would have been just as in 63, 68 and 74. We cannot give you that excuse again...simple as that!!!

hte example i gave was nothing to do with flags or anything involving a GC. The turkish guard post wanted to capture the road ahead by about 100 metres so they simply advanced 100m and capture the road. BUT...I FORGET....Turkey's never to blame.

Didn't say it was not to blame but can you provide more information on what the circumstances were...We are at war after all

this is what the UN report said

The UN repeatedly asked the Turkish-Cypriot side and Turkish forces to take away the restrictions they held against the UNFICYP. There was also concern about more violations by the Turkish-Cypriot side and the Turkish forces at Strovillia and tried to urge them to restore the military status before June 30th 2000.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:Vj ... cd=9&gl=uk

i'll dig up some more on the actual story rather than the UN's stupid pleas to return the status quo.

The point is that there is no trust DT...Why do you keep missing that point. Lets get talking and come to a fair agreement and then the army can be addressed....It is not going to come first from either side...The "RoC" would not stand a chance against Turkey so why the hell are they ordering more tanks...Internal conflict maybe...After the Turkish army has gone....Bit too fishy for me I am afraid

You asked me for more info on that troop advance!!

As for your other point, I take what copperline said before. You can take steps to lead to a comprehensive solution. The path you take with these steps will make the solution easier. What the hell could be wrong about living on an island with no troops and guns?

I have no problem with it but we have not even started along that road so the venom with which you guys attack on this issue is premature to say the least.

[Nikitas]

Trust hmmm.

Well in the south they demined their side of the ceasefire line, asked for a disengagement by agreed mutual withdrawl from the present line of confrontation, and no military presence at check points. All this was refused by the Turkish army who are the real bosses in the north. Not exactly a booster to confidence and no grounds to believe in their not being a threat. If these people make the decisions what makes you Zan and others here like VP and Eric that the Turkish army will leave when you say so?

We managed to limit the Greek army presence in the south. Can you do the same in the north? The majority of the senior army officers of the Cyprus National Guard are Cypriots. Is it the same in the north? Of course not. You are under direct military occupation, read some things written by Turkish commentators in Turkish newspapers and you will understand the other perspective on the Turkish army.

[free_cyprus]

This thread is certainly moving at a fast "pages/day" rate. It's always interesting to see which threads grow at the fastest rates in the shortest amounts of time.

thats becouse when it comes to talking shit most in here are proffessionals at it

[Nikitas]

Free Cyprus,

Talking shit also means talking fast? Must slow down from now on!!

[free_cyprus]

Free Cyprus,

Talking shit also means talking fast? Must slow down from now on!!

i have said two words in here you have said two hundred, maybe you should slow down