Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Theodore,
Sadly I think you missed the point of my postings and suggestions. I didn't intend them to encourage a repetition of the same claims and blames; I intended them to see if it was possible to get around the circular arguments which have led nowhere. To conclude, as you do, that we can return to laying the problem at the feet of Turkey (or had a TC or T posted, at the feet of RoC or GCs) is to miss the point entirely.

CopperLine like I said i agree with you, although I believe the "by pieces moving forward" should be used as supplementary to the whole effort of achieving an overall solution.
I fully agree with demilitarisation as you described it.

I think most people are unable to understand what you are saying because the legal language you are using is very difficult to follow. Obviously it is necessary to use such language for precision, but i think most people get lost. I personally read your posts 2 or 3 times to understand them.

[pitsilos]

i agree with copperline

[theodore]

[quote="CopperLine"]Theodore,
Sadly I think you missed the point of my postings and suggestions. I didn't intend them to encourage a repetition of the same claims and blames; I intended them to see [i]if[/i] it was possible to get around the circular arguments which have led nowhere. To conclude, as you do, that we can return to laying the problem at the feet of Turkey (or had a TC or T posted, at the feet of RoC or GCs) is to miss the point entirely.[/quote]



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House Foreign Affairs Committee strongly supports implementation of the July 8, 2006 Agreement
2007-09-26 14:51:01

WASHINGTON, DC, Sep 26 – Today the House Foreign Affairs Committee by unanimous consent adopted H. Res. 405, which expresses strong support for the immediate implementation of the July 8, 2006, United Nations-brokered Agreement as the way forward to prepare for new comprehensive negotiations leading to the reunification of the Republic of Cyprus.

On July 8, 2006, President of the Republic of Cyprus Tassos Papadopoulos and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat, agreed, under the auspices of the United Nations Under Secretary General Ibrahim Gambari, to a set of principles to begin a process of bi-communal discussions. H. Res. 405 calls upon the United States Government to fully support the immediate implementation of the July 8, 2006 Agreement in its entirety and without deviation from that process.

The Resolution recalls that the United States Government has long supported fostering the reunification of Cyprus within a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation, and within a process that is led by the United Nations, thereby consistent with the intended aim of the July 8, 2006, Agreement, and as set out in the relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. The Republic of Cyprus has repeatedly expressed its commitment to starting the process, which would create the necessary conditions for the commencement of negotiations leading to a reunification of Cyprus.

Speaking today from New York, where he will address the United Nations General Assembly, President Papadopoulos expressed satisfaction with the adoption of H.Res. 405 and the clear message of support given for the immediate implementation of the July 8, agreed-upon process. President Papadopoulos said, “Today’s adoption of H.Res. 405 is a positive and significant development.” The President also expressed his appreciation to the Committee on Foreign Affairs and particularly to Congressman Gus Bilirakis (R-Fl) who introduced the Resolution, as well as Members who co-sponsored this bill.

Co-sponsors of H. Res. 405 include: Rep. Andrews, Robert E. (D-NJ); Rep. Berkley, Shelley (D-NV); Rep. Brown, Henry E., Jr. (R-SC); Rep. Brown-Waite, Ginny (R-FL); Rep. Capuano, Michael E. (D-MA); Rep. Carnahan, Russ (D-MO); Rep. Crowley, Joseph (D-NY); Rep. Diaz-Balart, Lincoln (R-FL); Rep. Diaz-Balart, Mario (R-FL); Rep Engel, Eliot L. (D-NY); Rep. Fortuno, Luis G. (R-PR); Rep Fossella, Vito (R-NY); Rep. Franks, Trent (R-AZ); Rep. Gallegly, Elton (R-CA); Rep. Hinchey, Maurice D. (D-NY): Rep. Hodes, Paul W. (D-NH); Rep. Holt, Rush D. (D-NJ); Rep. Inglis, Bob (R-SC); Rep. Kennedy, Patrick J. (D-RI); Rep. King, Peter T. (R-NY); Rep. Lee, Barbara (D-CA); Rep. Maloney, Carolyn B. (D-NY); Rep. McCotter, Thaddeus G. (R-MI); Rep. Pallone, Frank, Jr. (D-NJ); Rep. Payne, Donald M. (D-NJ); Rep Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana (R-FL); Rep. Roskam, Peter J. (R-IL); Rep Sarbanes, John P. (D-MD); Rep. Sires, Albio (D-NJ); Rep. Space, Zachary T. (D-OH); Rep. Van Hollen, Chris (D-MD); Rep. Watson, Diane E. (D-CA).

[CopperLine]

Pyropolizer,
Your observation is appreciated. Thanks. How to remedy ?

[boomerang]

less spin perhaps?



sorry couldn't help it

[theodore]

[quote="GeorgeV97qaue"]Copperline you are talking out of your arse mate. I just want the Island to reunite so I can go back to my fathers home which I've never seen. I guess you cant understand what that means. I dont see any TC's wanting to go back to there homes in the south because you have stolen the most beautiful part of the country and prefer to live in other peoples houses.

Just remember this TRNC will never be recognised. The International community are not stupid. Do you think they believe that your people will be persicuted by the greeks if we did unite. If they did would they have allowed us to join the EU.[/quote]


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Just to let you know that the world knows about it ... it is time for GC to start talking to the International community let them not forget what has happen to you and parents keep it at there feet at all times this is the way you have hope of seeing you parents land and home ... just the way your presided has done in New York here is some news for you ....

New York, Sep 26 - In remarks at the General Debate of the 62nd session of the General Assembly of the United Nations in New York on Wednesday, President Papadopoulos said that a settlement of the Cyprus problem in the form of a bizonal, bicommunal federation can be truly comprehensive and need not sacrifice justice for the sake of peace. He noted that the Cyprus problem is not a derivative of bad community relations but one of outside intervention, and only progress through preparing the ground can lead to an agreed settlement.

President Papadopoulos referred to the history of the Cyprus problem, noting that ''for many years the UN has made strenuous efforts in trying to broker a solution,'' adding that ''it might be that the task has been so arduous because the truth remains that the Cyprus issue, when stripped of niceties of diplomatic terminology, is a question of foreign aggression and continuing occupation of a significant part of a sovereign state, entailing enclaved and missing persons, refugees and massive and enduring violations of human rights.''

He posed the question as to why the problem persists after so many years during which the national, regional and international political landscape has undergone dramatic changes, noting that ''certainly, it is neither for lack of political will nor for lack of effort on our part.''

''Rather, the occupying power has not displayed any motivation to solve the problem and this has only been reinforced by the Annan plan which satisfied all Turkish desiderata, thus being readily accepted by the Turkish side. Instead, Turkey has used its dominant position to command trade-offs of all sorts,'' he pointed out.

“We consider that a solution to the Cyprus problem and good neighborly relations between Cyprus and Turkey are a sine qua non for the stability of both countries and the wider region. An opportunity to put this doctrine to practice has arisen as a result of Turkey’s aspiration to join the EU. However, the catalytic effect of this accession negotiation process has not thus far helped relieve the Cyprus problem of artificial and unfounded Turkish concerns and unrealistic policy considerations that have, in any case, been rendered obsolete by the emerging political environment,'' he said.

In reference to the 8 July 2006 agreement, President Papadopoulos said ''sidelining or circumventing stages of the process will only lead to expediting not the solution, but the confirmation of deadlock.''

President Papadopoulos said the Greek Cypriot side remains fully committed to the mission of good offices entrusted to the UN Secretary General by the Security Council, ''as it is clear to us that we cannot sustain the status quo and must insist on a meaningful and forward looking process that can elicit concrete results leading to a settlement of a bizonal, bicommunal federation, with the correct meaning of each of these terms.''

[theodore]

[quote="DT."][quote="free_cyprus"]why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking[/quote]

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.[/quote]


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It is OK to lose the buttel but win the war and this war is not your's is GOD"S

[humanist]

hey theodore can we share Jesus christ or is he exclussively for Cyprus LOL

[Murataga]

The main problems with proposals to 'withdraw troops' are that (i) there is great reluctance to be first mover, (ii) it doesn't necessarily lead to feeling more secure, and (iii) it has the obvious flipside of troop build-up or return.

What might be considered instead is demilitarisation. This has the prospect instead, it seems to me, of (a) enhancing security for all parties, (b) diminish tensions, (c) build mutual confidence and (d) save a lot of money and resources. Furthermore demilitarisation of the island could be done without prejudice to nor dependent on broader a broader political settlement. Additionally demilitarisation of the island would address the outrage which is the British sovereign bases.

What might demilitarisation entail ? Maybe the disbandment of RoC and TRNC armed forces and their complete substitution with civil and unarmed police forces. Perhaps the commitment to rescind basing rights to foreign militaries (whose current justifications for continued deployment is the military threat/insecuirty posed by the other side); so in removing the threat you remove the justification for foreign military presence and assistance. Perhaps the creation of trans-Green Line 'peace parks' could be the first step. In a 'peace park', which is usually a common ecological zone bisected by a border, the norm is to exclude ALL military activities, personnel and materials. There are of course avenues to pursue other than these quick suggestions.

What could be the objections to such a proposal ? (I have a number in mind, but I wonder what Forum members might think).

I disagree with the TC demilitarization and here is why:

Firstly, you are asking the side outnumbered 1 to 4 in this conflict to disarm as if their vulnerability would be the same with the other in a demilitarized environment in Cyprus; historical and present facts of Cyprus suggests otherwise. Secondly, your proposal is based on the assumption that the military presence of both sides is equivalently a nuisance to the both sides hence demilitarisation is an equivalent favor to both sides - no. I couldn`t care less about the National Guard now, but I know the vice versa isn`t true. The rights they have taken away from me is a matter still on the table for discussion only and only because I have my military to keep it on the table. Unfortunately, military might is the language these people will understand and this proposal takes that away from me without returning+guaranteeing me my rights.

Consequently, I find your proposal unbalanced and given the past and current agenda/actions of the GC leadership quite unfair to the TC side. I do not see the demilitarization of the two sides as a compromise to the GC side at all – to the contrary it is music to their ears because unfortunately our military might seems to be the only thing that stands between their complete rein over Cyprus and the current status. This proposal is the final golden trophy to the GC side for their criminal policies/actions over the TCs for almost half a century - unsuprisingly two GC members immediately expressed to be in favor of the proposal. I strongly believe that demilitarization may perhaps be considered fair and reasonable only and only under the circumstances where both sides have full recognition.

[utu]

Given the strategic significance of Cyprus to Turkey because of its location, does one ever envisage any troop withdrawal if it was not in Turkey's strategic interest to do so?