Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

where is your brains mate. if it was not for the fecking constetution the zurich agrement none of this would have happened how can you have two armies in an independent state can you show me any country in the world where they have self determitation and independence and they have two armies controled by outsiders to make matters worse, if you know of any country like that i like to hear about

off the top of my head Germany has US and UK troops.

Iraq has even more!!!

[free_cyprus]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

where is your brains mate. if it was not for the fecking constetution the zurich agrement none of this would have happened how can you have two armies in an independent state can you show me any country in the world where they have self determitation and independence and they have two armies controled by outsiders to make matters worse, if you know of any country like that i like to hear about

off the top of my head Germany has US and UK troops.

no amigo america and britain have bases in germany thats it they are not part of the german sooo calleed home gourd and security

like we had in cyprus turkish and greek army what the feck is all that about who are they training to fight with what a joke

[Jerry]

George97quae,

Why are you getting in a hissy fit with me ? My trying to point out the stumbling blocks in various proposals is not denying your wish to reunite the island or seeing your father's land. I sincerely hope that both things are achieved; I mean that.

But the black magic of chanting over and over again the wrongs of the situation is not going to change the situation; it is not going to move the realisation of re-unification or seeing long-lost land one iota.

so I can go back to my fathers home which I've never seen.I guess you cant understand what that means.

Why do you think that this is something I can't understand ? You clearly don't have a monopoly of not seeing your forebears' land or home. We are in that respect like millions upon millions of people around the world, including Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots, Cypriots, Turks and Greeks and every other peoples in the Mediterranean ... and Europe ... and ...

I come back to the schools of thought : negotiations take place with enemies; negotiations take place with people who have wronged you; negotiations takes place with people who have robbed, pillaged and raped. That is what negotiations are. Negotiations take place between parties who are unequal in power, with different and non-identical experiences of injustice, with unequal and different grievances. My comment was simply that those negotiations can either take place slowly attempting a comprehensive settlement, or perhaps more speedily by piecemeal fashion.

The third position is a refusal to negotiate. Fair enough. But then you've got to concede that settlement is very unlikely to be realised and de facto partition will become reinforced.

Where are we now ? ... 33 years after effective division and population expulsions and loss, and no further military conflict to speak of since then. What are the bets that 33 years from now i.e, 2040 - when a considerable proportion of this forum will be pushing up the daisies or oleander - the division, with or without recognition of TRNC, will be much the same as today ? And this forum will be still full of posters repeating the same old grievances, hostilities and blaming ?

I think it's about perception CL. Both sides see the other as having the upper hand and are therefore unwilling to give way. It will need someone to "bang heads together" to kick start even a piecemeal solution. The ROC is unwilling to accept what Gul called the realities on the ground and Turkey appears unwilling to shift its position even if it means failing in its EU membership bid. We have an impasse, paradoxically the offer of say 100 F16s to the Turkish military could be just enough af a bribe to kick start troop withdrawals. I don't think demilitarisation of Cyprus would ever be considered by the ROC simply because Tukish troops are always only 40 miles away.
In my opinion the whole issue depends on how much Turkey wants to join Europe, if the EU bid is a really important issue the it will give way but in the meantime more "realities on the ground" will have made the Cyprus Problem even more difficult to solve - its a vicious circle.

Probably the only fair way to resolve the matter is for an international commission to start from scratch based on the position pre 1960 and awarding compensation for the new "realities"

[Pyrpolizer]

The main problems with proposals to 'withdraw troops' are that (i) there is great reluctance to be first mover, (ii) it doesn't necessarily lead to feeling more secure, and (iii) it has the obvious flipside of troop build-up or return.

What might be considered instead is demilitarisation. This has the prospect instead, it seems to me, of (a) enhancing security for all parties, (b) diminish tensions, (c) build mutual confidence and (d) save a lot of money and resources. Furthermore demilitarisation of the island could be done without prejudice to nor dependent on broader a broader political settlement. Additionally demilitarisation of the island would address the outrage which is the British sovereign bases.

What might demilitarisation entail ? Maybe the disbandment of RoC and TRNC armed forces and their complete substitution with civil and unarmed police forces. Perhaps the commitment to rescind basing rights to foreign militaries (whose current justifications for continued deployment is the military threat/insecuirty posed by the other side); so in removing the threat you remove the justification for foreign military presence and assistance. Perhaps the creation of trans-Green Line 'peace parks' could be the first step. In a 'peace park', which is usually a common ecological zone bisected by a border, the norm is to exclude ALL military activities, personnel and materials. There are of course avenues to pursue other than these quick suggestions.

What could be the objections to such a proposal ? (I have a number in mind, but I wonder what Forum members might think).

CopperLine,
I fully agree with your proposal.

[theodore]

[quote="CopperLine"]George97quae,

Why are you getting in a hissy fit with me ? My trying to point out the stumbling blocks in various proposals is not denying your wish to reunite the island or seeing your father's land. I sincerely hope that both things are achieved; I mean that.

But the black magic of chanting over and over again the wrongs of the situation is not going to change the situation; it is not going to move the realisation of re-unification or seeing long-lost land one iota.

[quote]so I can go back to my fathers home which I've never seen.I guess you cant understand what that means.
[/quote]



Why do you think that this is something i can't understand ? You clearly don't have a monopoly of not seeing your forebears' land or home. We are in that respect like millions upon millions of people around the world, including Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots, Cypriots, Turks and Greeks and every other peoples in the Mediterranean ... and Europe ... and ...

I come back to the schools of thought : negotiations take place with enemies; negotiations take place with people who have wronged you; negotiations takes place with people who have robbed, pillaged and raped. That is what negotiations are. Negotiations take place between parties who are unequal in power, with different and non-identical experiences of injustice, with unequal and different grievances. My comment was simply that those negotiations can either take place slowly attempting a comprehensive settlement, or perhaps more speedily by piecemeal fashion.

The third position is a refusal to negotiate. Fair enough. But then you've got to concede that settlement is very unlikely to be realised and de facto partition will become reinforced.

Where are we now ? ... 33 years after effective division and population expulsions and loss, and no further military conflict to speak of since then. What are the bets that 33 years from now i.e, 2040 - when a considerable proportion of this forum will be pushing up the daisies or oleander - the division, with or without recognition of TRNC, will be much the same as today ? And this forum will be still full of posters repeating the same old grievances, hostilities and blaming ?[/quote]

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I am so thankful that you acknowledge what Turkey have done to Cyprus, in so many years took peoples land... Cypriots will like to see there own island or seeing there father's land but can not... this speaks of Turkey as occupiers

We know it is something you can't understand because this did not happen to you and it is clearly that Turkey is trying to use the monopoly on the issue of Cyprus with UN and all International media.

You like the respect like millions upon millions of people around the world,
then you must show respect as well we see the GC giving you all the respect possible after taking there homes there businesses raping there daughters what else do you want bro can you show some respect to them i mine to the GC and yes you consider them your enemy.

You have said it well negotiations take place with enemies; negotiations take place with people who have wronged you; negotiations takes place with people who have robbed, pillaged and raped. That is what negotiations are. Negotiations take place between parties who are unequal in power, with different and non-identical experiences of injustice, with unequal and different grievances. All this is the acknowledge what Turkey did to GC's this is what we see in the International community.

[zan]

I thought that was going to end with a sorry to the Turkish Cypriots......Hey Ho!

[CopperLine]

Theodore,
Sadly I think you missed the point of my postings and suggestions. I didn't intend them to encourage a repetition of the same claims and blames; I intended them to see if it was possible to get around the circular arguments which have led nowhere. To conclude, as you do, that we can return to laying the problem at the feet of Turkey (or had a TC or T posted, at the feet of RoC or GCs) is to miss the point entirely.

[theodore]

[quote="zan"]I thought that was going to end with a sorry to the Turkish Cypriots......Hey Ho! :roll: :roll:[/quote]


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That is where you are wrong bro. GC do not forget nether did us foreigners that was there at that time we know what was taking place bro.

[zan]

I thought that was going to end with a sorry to the Turkish Cypriots......Hey Ho!

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That is where you are wrong bro. GC do not forget nether did us foreigners that was there at that time we know what was taking place bro.

1963?

How old are you

[boomerang]

Theodore,
Sadly I think you missed the point of my postings and suggestions. I didn't intend them to encourage a repetition of the same claims and blames; I intended them to see if it was possible to get around the circular arguments which have led nowhere. To conclude, as you do, that we can return to laying the problem at the feet of Turkey (or had a TC or T posted, at the feet of RoC or GCs) is to miss the point entirely.

any you avoided my reply...copperline