Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Zan,

The problem with withdrawing Troops is going to come to the point where one side suspects the other and starts to move troops back in...This would be disastrous.

Agreed, and therein lies the limitation of troop withdrawal proposals, especially where the evaluation of the security threat is take by armies themselves. (The military, like other organisations, has a tendency to inflate its own importance and its own raison d'etre thereby securing more resources).

A corollary of demilitarisation is that the military is progressively removed from deciding what is a security problem. Clearly this is a difficult and sensitive task to undertake.

If we don't propose something like demilitarisation then the military will always insist that they know best and security decisions are theirs alone to make and implement. If that is the case then Cyprus will remain one of the most militarised places in the world (per capita, perhaps even by area).

For quick reference, have you got some links to your peace park postings ?

Sorry mate but a link would take a long time to find because it was so long ago but at the time the argument was for the two sides to pull back the check points so that Ledra street was reopened. There would have been a check point at each end but my argument was that it would be in no mans land and a third state would have to be created in order to police and administer the area. I did also said that if that were to happen then why not have the whole of Lefcosa/Nikosia as this new state and give it over to business and entertainment.....Just as complicated I think, don't you????

[CopperLine]

George97quae, Paliometoxo,

My mistake, I should have included a third school of thought : the unconditional surrender proposal. That too has its adherents on all sides of the dispute.

Of course the demand for unconditional surrender has only any chance of being successful through the use of overwhelming and unlimited violence. None of the sides have this capacity or are likely to have it, even assuming they were willing to use it.

So school three is the only one of the three schools which is, from the outset, a non-starter.

[GeorgeV97qaue]

Copperline you are talking out of your arse mate. I just want the Island to reunite so I can go back to my fathers home which I've never seen. I guess you cant understand what that means. I dont see any TC's wanting to go back to there homes in the south because you have stolen the most beautiful part of the country and prefer to live in other peoples houses.

Just remember this TRNC will never be recognised. The International community are not stupid. Do you think they believe that your people will be persicuted by the greeks if we did unite. If they did would they have allowed us to join the EU.

[zan]

[CopperLine]

George97quae,

Why are you getting in a hissy fit with me ? My trying to point out the stumbling blocks in various proposals is not denying your wish to reunite the island or seeing your father's land. I sincerely hope that both things are achieved; I mean that.

But the black magic of chanting over and over again the wrongs of the situation is not going to change the situation; it is not going to move the realisation of re-unification or seeing long-lost land one iota.

so I can go back to my fathers home which I've never seen.I guess you cant understand what that means.

Why do you think that this is something I can't understand ? You clearly don't have a monopoly of not seeing your forebears' land or home. We are in that respect like millions upon millions of people around the world, including Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots, Cypriots, Turks and Greeks and every other peoples in the Mediterranean ... and Europe ... and ...

I come back to the schools of thought : negotiations take place with enemies; negotiations take place with people who have wronged you; negotiations takes place with people who have robbed, pillaged and raped. That is what negotiations are. Negotiations take place between parties who are unequal in power, with different and non-identical experiences of injustice, with unequal and different grievances. My comment was simply that those negotiations can either take place slowly attempting a comprehensive settlement, or perhaps more speedily by piecemeal fashion.

The third position is a refusal to negotiate. Fair enough. But then you've got to concede that settlement is very unlikely to be realised and de facto partition will become reinforced.

Where are we now ? ... 33 years after effective division and population expulsions and loss, and no further military conflict to speak of since then. What are the bets that 33 years from now i.e, 2040 - when a considerable proportion of this forum will be pushing up the daisies or oleander - the division, with or without recognition of TRNC, will be much the same as today ? And this forum will be still full of posters repeating the same old grievances, hostilities and blaming ?

[free_cyprus]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

[DT.]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

[zan]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

Wrong...They came to save the "RoC" but found they had already disbanded and would not return to the original constitution....

[free_cyprus]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

where is your brains mate. if it was not for the fecking constetution the zurich agrement none of this would have happened how can you have two armies in an independent state can you show me any country in the world where they have self determitation and independence and they have two armies controled by outsiders to make matters worse, if you know of any country like that i like to hear about

[DT.]

why is there any troops at all in cyprus turkish speaking as well as greek speaking, for an island that has not even a population of one million people cyprus has the biggest militery per head anywehre in the world, for an island that has not declared war onto another nation in its history why does cyprus need alll those troops there turkish speakign and greek speaking

Because Turkey declared war on the state of the Republic of Cyprus. The two nations are officially still at war.

where is your brains mate. if it was not for the fecking constetution the zurich agrement none of this would have happened how can you have two armies in an independent state can you show me any country in the world where they have self determitation and independence and they have two armies controled by outsiders to make matters worse, if you know of any country like that i like to hear about

off the top of my head Germany has US and UK troops.