Cyprus-Forum.com

[Eric dayi]

Militiades,
The difference between you and I, we've already established, is that I actually do research whereas you just Google. I could provide you with many links though since I don't actually believe that you read the links I provide (and if you do you simply say that you don't have the same 'opinion') I can't see why I should waste my time.

Militiades, as any fool knows GDP per capita is NOT a measure of quality of life; GDP per capita is an average which, of necessity, masks the range of inequality; GDP per capita says nothing about purchasing power.

How many thousands upon thousands more escape the paradise island of Great Britain despite having a much higher GDP per capita than Cuba ? There are a whole host of reasons why people leave their countries, what are the reasons, Militiades, for leaving Cuba ? Give us an answer to that - not your wild speculations but some researched evidence.

Here's a little story.

When I was working in Germany, very shortly after the Berlin wall came down, the company's work picked up and our boss decided to hire some help from the old "East Germany" simply because they were a hell of a lot cheaper then West German workers. He didn't tell us what he was paying them but one day the two East Germans were standing around and when I asked them if they wanted to work they said "you earn more money than us so you do the work". So I said ok, let's talk about this.

I asked them what they earned and they gladly to prove their point told me that they were getting paid DM800 which was less then half of what we were getting. I said ok, let's compare what you pay back home to what we pay here in the West. Here's the list of what I can remember of that conversation.

My wages: DM 2000
Their wages: DM800

My rent for the house: DM900
Theirs: 30 (or 50 can't remember exactly)

Our heating costs: DM100
Theirs: Around 10-15

We compared a lot of other stuff that I can't remember the details of but it worked out in the end that after paying out everything and shopping money they had more money left over then what me and my colleague were left with.

So I suggested that one of them swaps his wages with mine I pay his bills and he pays my bills if he was so keen on earning that much money. That was the only time we had that conversation about who earned more than whom and after that they worked like donkey's. Guess what their answer was.

So it's not always about the GDP, it's also how much is left over after you have paid your usual bills. Some people here in the UK earn about £3-400 a week and still can't afford to go to the pub once a week never mind on a holiday because the rent on a house is about £250 a week alone. My next door neighbour pays £295 a week rent. 1 litre petrol is almost £1. Tax, tax and more tax and that's why most people choose to emigrate because they can't afford to live here any more.

Of course, £30,000 GDP sounds great but what's the use if the rent is more than half of that GDP?

If there was no NHS and people had to pay for medical treatment and/or no Governmental help with paying the rent, there would be millions of people looking for a better life elsewhere instead of just thousands.

But of course some people are incapable of thinking about these small little details.

[Southerner]

as a gay man I find your post and coment insulting southerner. not that you would care of course what i think.

It was meant more tongue in cheek than serious, maybe you never heard what KGV said.

If you had said that you were homosexual I could accept it but what I don't accept is the word gay in reference to homosexuals just as I find the word straight offensive when refering to people who are not homosexuals.

[big jay]

:[/quote
big jay, welcome to the forum and good luck with your postings.

Your comments about the I.R.A. are of little consequence here since we were discussing the question of internment.

Do you have any opinions on that subject and it's comparison with 'Guantanamo' ?.

The question of torture of innocent prisoners in those notorious places was the subject material I believe. [/quote]

Eliko, thanks for the welcome.

apologies if i went slightly off topic i think i must have misinterprated your post as pro IRA which is a subject close to heart as i have members of my familly who have served in northern ireland and its a pretty emotive subject.

i agree that with hindsight internment was not the right way to go then nor is it the right way to go now with guantanamo if the US are convinced they have interned people who are in any way guilty of carrying out or indeed playing any part in helping or organising a terrorist act they should be put on trial and if found guilty dealt with in the most severe way but everybody deserves the right to a fair trial.

[Southerner]

: Eliko, thanks for the welcome.
apologies if i went slightly off topic i think i must have misinterprated your post as pro IRA which is a subject close to heart as i have members of my familly who have served in northern ireland and its a pretty emotive subject. .

Welcome to the forum "big jay", don't apologise if you were to look back through various topics you will find that Eliko is the biggest culprit regarding taking the topic off course. He and his cronies grab any opportunity to twist a topic in anti western bile, he even put a curse on me.

[Eliko]

big jay, there is little need for an apology for your slight error but thanks anyway.

You will find that it is common practice on the forum to stray off in several directions (part of the fun I think).

In any case, you were not the one that initially came off topic, the question of internment was raised in the midst of a discussion on 'Guantanamo' (which in itself was not really the basis of the topic in the first place).

I agree with your comments about internment however, I do hope your connection with the Northern Ireland issues (family wise) did not result in the loss of any close relative.

Best Wishes to you once again and good luck with your postings.

[bigdog]

tessintrnc, you are absolutely right in your assessment of the manner in which the problems of Ireland were sometimes dealt with (particularly in the cases of internment).

The British were quite capable of atrocities in the times of the struggle for freedom, the opposing forces, duly named 'Terrorists' but actually men willing to die for their beliefs, had no alternative but to adopt guerrilla tactics since they were ill-equipped to face the might of the British Army.

Similar situation in Iraq actually, I expect I will now be tagged as an I.R.A. fanatic along with the other titles bestowed on me by our 'Know Nothing' old friend.

The ability to observe and draw conclusions WITHOUT the influence of the media (who are controlled by the politicians) is something to be rather pleased with, it does not mean that you agree with what is happening, it means that you realize that there must be a reason for it, THAT is where the ability to understand both sides becomes useful.

I know (from some of your other posts) that you are a person WITH such capabilities and I admire you for it.

Best Wishes to you and God Bless you.

The IRA are and always have been a gangster organisation , protection rackets , drug running , punishment beatings , armed robberies , do I need to go on ?

[oranos64]

Militiades,
The difference between you and I, we've already established, is that I actually do research whereas you just Google. I could provide you with many links though since I don't actually believe that you read the links I provide (and if you do you simply say that you don't have the same 'opinion') I can't see why I should waste my time.

Militiades, as any fool knows GDP per capita is NOT a measure of quality of life; GDP per capita is an average which, of necessity, masks the range of inequality; GDP per capita says nothing about purchasing power.

How many thousands upon thousands more escape the paradise island of Great Britain despite having a much higher GDP per capita than Cuba ? There are a whole host of reasons why people leave their countries, what are the reasons, Militiades, for leaving Cuba ? Give us an answer to that - not your wild speculations but some researched evidence.

Here's a little story.

When I was working in Germany, very shortly after the Berlin wall came down, the company's work picked up and our boss decided to hire some help from the old "East Germany" simply because they were a hell of a lot cheaper then West German workers. He didn't tell us what he was paying them but one day the two East Germans were standing around and when I asked them if they wanted to work they said "you earn more money than us so you do the work". So I said ok, let's talk about this.

I asked them what they earned and they gladly to prove their point told me that they were getting paid DM800 which was less then half of what we were getting. I said ok, let's compare what you pay back home to what we pay here in the West. Here's the list of what I can remember of that conversation.

My wages: DM 2000
Their wages: DM800

My rent for the house: DM900
Theirs: 30 (or 50 can't remember exactly)

Our heating costs: DM100
Theirs: Around 10-15

We compared a lot of other stuff that I can't remember the details of but it worked out in the end that after paying out everything and shopping money they had more money left over then what me and my colleague were left with.

So I suggested that one of them swaps his wages with mine I pay his bills and he pays my bills if he was so keen on earning that much money. That was the only time we had that conversation about who earned more than whom and after that they worked like donkey's. Guess what their answer was.

So it's not always about the GDP, it's also how much is left over after you have paid your usual bills. Some people here in the UK earn about £3-400 a week and still can't afford to go to the pub once a week never mind on a holiday because the rent on a house is about £250 a week alone. My next door neighbour pays £295 a week rent. 1 litre petrol is almost £1. Tax, tax and more tax and that's why most people choose to emigrate because they can't afford to live here any more.

Of course, £30,000 GDP sounds great but what's the use if the rent is more than half of that GDP?

If there was no NHS and people had to pay for medical treatment and/or no Governmental help with paying the rent, there would be millions of people looking for a better life elsewhere instead of just thousands.

But of course some people are incapable of thinking about these small little details.

very well said eric ... i too have to explain this type of thing weekly to local greek cypriots ... UK we earn big but pay out too much

saying that ... southern cyps are in for a year of pain when the EURO comes in

ANYONE ,WHATS THE GREEK WORK FOR RECESSION ...DOES IT ALSO SOUND LIKE DEPRESSION ?

[Eliko]

tessintrnc, you are absolutely right in your assessment of the manner in which the problems of Ireland were sometimes dealt with (particularly in the cases of internment).

The British were quite capable of atrocities in the times of the struggle for freedom, the opposing forces, duly named 'Terrorists' but actually men willing to die for their beliefs, had no alternative but to adopt guerrilla tactics since they were ill-equipped to face the might of the British Army.

Similar situation in Iraq actually, I expect I will now be tagged as an I.R.A. fanatic along with the other titles bestowed on me by our 'Know Nothing' old friend.

The ability to observe and draw conclusions WITHOUT the influence of the media (who are controlled by the politicians) is something to be rather pleased with, it does not mean that you agree with what is happening, it means that you realize that there must be a reason for it, THAT is where the ability to understand both sides becomes useful.

I know (from some of your other posts) that you are a person WITH such capabilities and I admire you for it.

Best Wishes to you and God Bless you.

The IRA are and always have been a gangster organisation , protection rackets , drug running , punishment beatings , armed robberies , do I need to go on ?

bigdog, that probably explains why they never got round to painting the kerb-stones 'Green, White and Gold', far too busy mate.

[CopperLine]

Miltiades,
You crack me up

What is your definition of GDP per capita , I thought it meant available , AVERAGE , income per head of population , I though it was indicative of a nations prosperity , obviously for an old accountant I was wrong

Yes, you said it.

1. GDP per capita is a measure of average income per head of population but it is NOT a measure of purchasing power. Read Eric Dayi's post - he described purchasing power brilliantly.

2. It is indicative of a nation's prosperity but not a reliable measure of the prosperity of people who make up that 'nation'. That was my main point when I made the original distinction, only to be met by a tirade of abuse from you.

3. It is not 'my definition of GDP per capita', such a matter is not a question of opinion. The definition is the value of gross domestic product divided by the population number. There is nothing to argue over here - that is what GDP per capita means and GDP is an effort to try and calculate the total value of production, essentially from within, a country.

4. I didn't compare the conditions of Britain with those of Cuba. What I actually said - but you seem terminally incapable of reading the words that I have actually written, and constantly substitute words that you wish that I had written - was "there are a whole host of reasons why people leave their countries, what are the reasons, Militiades, for leaving Cuba ?" You substituted the words 'methods of leaving Britain' for my words which were 'reasons for leaving Cuba'.

Militiades anybody can play cheap tricks on a forum by changing the words posters have actually written and inventing words that they haven't written. I can't stop you doing that, but it is a monumental waste of time.

....and I had always been led to believe that accountants were trained to be accurate and paid attention to detail.

[Eric dayi]

Miltiades,
You crack me up

What is your definition of GDP per capita , I thought it meant available , AVERAGE , income per head of population , I though it was indicative of a nations prosperity , obviously for an old accountant I was wrong

Yes, you said it.

1. GDP per capita is a measure of average income per head of population but it is NOT a measure of purchasing power. Read Eric Dayi's post - he described purchasing power brilliantly.

2. It is indicative of a nation's prosperity but not a reliable measure of the prosperity of people who make up that 'nation'. That was my main point when I made the original distinction, only to be met by a tirade of abuse from you.

3. It is not 'my definition of GDP per capita', such a matter is not a question of opinion. The definition is the value of gross domestic product divided by the population number. There is nothing to argue over here - that is what GDP per capita means and GDP is an effort to try and calculate the total value of production, essentially from within, a country.

4. I didn't compare the conditions of Britain with those of Cuba. What I actually said - but you seem terminally incapable of reading the words that I have actually written, and constantly substitute words that you wish that I had written - was "there are a whole host of reasons why people leave their countries, what are the reasons, Militiades, for leaving Cuba ?" You substituted the words 'methods of leaving Britain' for my words which were 'reasons for leaving Cuba'.

Militiades anybody can play cheap tricks on a forum by changing the words posters have actually written and inventing words that they haven't written. I can't stop you doing that, but it is a monumental waste of time.

I am sure miltiades will find something wrong in my posting Cooperline, so it might not be so good after all.

....and I had always been led to believe that accountants were trained to be accurate and paid attention to detail.

I now q few people who were bankrupted because their accountant weren't accurate and paid no attention to any details, aal they are worried about screwing their clients.