Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

I think you are splitting hairs here. The point MicAtCyp ios making is that the proportion of land that has been expropriated is very small and remember that the vast majority of TC's prior to '74 lived in the south.

[erolz]

Erol,

I think you are splitting hairs here. The point MicAtCyp ios making is that the proportion of land that has been expropriated is very small and remember that the vast majority of TC's prior to '74 lived in the south.

Maybe it is 'splitting hairs'. I was just curious more than anything else. I had not made any comment on what it would mean (either way round). Just the statement was made and I wondered which it meant (absolute or proportional) - that's all.

[MicAtCyp]

What concern is it of yours who represents us, thats our business, all we know is that Greek Cypriots cannot and do not respresent us.

Do you have a problem answering who represents you Viewpoint To tell you the truth,I don't care who represents you or who doesn’t, all I know is that you don't have any right to represent our stolen homes and lands. But I guess you yourselves don't even know what you really represent or if you are represented to anyone else other than your own mama. Isn’t it you who complained you cannot even sing at Eurovision?

it rubber stamped the fact that for any changes or developments relating to the north of the island they have to consult the authorities here. In time the south will not even be aware of visits by the EU to Northern Cyprus.

Ha,ha,ha which authorities are you talking about? All those who after they issue papers they give it to RoC for rubber stamping and final approval?? Ha, ha,ha that was nice. So in the end the RoC will not even be aware of EU visits? Is that what they told you? Ha, ha, ha within 5 seconds you scored twice!

I dont have an RoC passport.

Good luck to you then. Go get a useless passport from your mama, if you don't have one already. Re, never you heard what Denktash told his grandson to do?

**************************************

Erol, sorry but I don't understand your question.I said "about equal" and this can be verified by the figures of thousand of donums I gave*. Or you mean I should say "proportionately equal"? If that’s what you mean then you are right and thank you for pointing it out. If I did not guess right, clarify me your question please.

*Look at the ‘wrote" frame. That's not a reply to anyone, thats what I-WROTE in the past.(thousands of donums etc)

[erolz]

Erol, sorry but I don't understand your question.I said "about equal" and this can be verified by the figures of thousand of donums I gave*. Or you mean I should say "proportionately equal"? If that’s what you mean then you are right and thank you for pointing it out. If I did not guess right, clarify me your question please.

*Look at the ‘wrote" frame. That's not a reply to anyone, thats what I-WROTE in the past.(thousands of donums etc)

Er I do not want to make a big issue out of this - I was juts curious.

You said

"Percentage of expropriated privately owned lands from 1974 until today amounts to 1.6% and is shared about equally among GC and Tc properties."

I just wondered if you meant equal in terms of the number of acres (or dounums or whatever unit is used) or equal in terms of (and these are made up figures to try and explain) 80% of land was GC and 20% was TC and that approx 1.6% of each of these has been expropriated by RoC since 74. Is that any clearer?

In case not I 'll try a different approach.

Lets assume there are 1000 'units' of land we are talking about. So of this thousand 16 units have been expropriated. Of this 16 - 8 was GC and 8 was TC. Thus equal

or

1000 units of land. 800 were GC and 200 were TC. 1.6% of GC land expropriated = 1.6% of 800 = 12.8 units. 1.6 % of TC land expropriated = 1.6% of 200 = 3.2 units. Also 'equal' (in proprtional terms to the size of each sides land - ie 1.6%)

I just wondered which equal you were refering too in your post - mainly out of curiostiy and not a desire to make any sort of 'point'. Hopefully that is clearer now?

[insan]

The law specifies that Turkish Cypriot land can only be used for public
projects. But Mustafa’s land was subsequently sold as building plots
going for between £9,000 and £13,000 a piece – though one sold for as
high as £34,000 – not only to locals but also foreigners.

"Where was the public interest? Would any Greek Cypriot have accepted
this; to appropriate their land for nothing?" a friend of the Turkish
Cypriots told the Sunday Mail.

The state also appropriated another piece of the couple’s land, worth
£137,000. Again, they have not received a cent in compensation.

But perhaps the most blatant abuse of their property concerns the use
of
their land to build the Amargeti to Paphos road; the land was not even
formally expropriated.

The rest of their land is largely used by Greek Cypriot farmers, while
one of the houses they owned has since been demolished and the other is
used for livestock.

On another part of their land, olive trees were planted by a Greek
Cypriot just two years ago, when the couple had already returned to the
island.

The family friend said only former Attorney-general Alecos Markides had
viewed the Turkish Cypriots’ plight with sympathy and ordered his
Paphos
lawyer to settle the case.

But according to the friend, there was opposition at the time from the
Guardian’s office and the case is still on hold.

© Cyprus Mail 2003

[brother]

micatcyp said:

t's not the heart. It's one of the lungs. That's why is still alive and healthy. But cant do heavy work or run, cause it needs both lungs.
The heart, the brain and the sexual organs belong to the arithmetic majority cause they are unique.Thinking of it it also misses one of it's balls. : - )

[cannedmoose]

micatcyp said:

t's not the heart. It's one of the lungs. That's why is still alive and healthy. But cant do heavy work or run, cause it needs both lungs.
The heart, the brain and the sexual organs belong to the arithmetic majority cause they are unique.Thinking of it it also misses one of it's balls. : - )

I second that emotion brother to you micatcyp

[Viewpoint]

[MicAtCyp wrote]It's not the heart. It's one of the lungs. That's why is still alive and healthy. But cant do heavy work or run, cause it needs both lungs.
[/quote]

Does that mean we can divide forever, if one lung is sufficent??

[MicAtCyp]

Well Insan,

Since I don't need any pinching to tell the truth, heres my reply, to the case of Mustafa that you posted.

After 1974 we had a chaos. People were waiting to return propably this year propably next year. The years were going by until someday they discovered something is going wrong with TC properties.The first sign was that they were not used exclussively by refugees, or that they were used for profit. For example there was a guy who got a huge TC plot in the center of Nicosia, turned it to a parking place, and was making millions every year.He initially said he had a contract with Evkaf, however he could not show any papers....

So they made the law of the Guardian of TC properties. The illegality going on with the TC properties made this law actually trying to stop the illegality than keeping the legal order.The fact is that even up until today a part of the TC properties is used illegally by persons who are not even refugees.

In addition to that various Governments were expropriating TC properties but postponed to set aside the funds needed just "to show" good economic results by the end of the year. Anyway the law says the expropriated properties are compensated at the value of the date the expropriation is published in the Gazette. So actually this delay benefited the TCs because they will eventually get multiple the original price.

Most of the TC properties were in bad shape. Propably because the owners themselves were in bad economic shape prior to 74. Since some years later they became un- inhabitable, guess what happened before the law of the Guardian was voted. Self seekers raised them to the ground to use the land for agricultural purposes.

Now guess what some clever municipalities at towns where 80% of the town was a shining tourist attraction and 20% of it condemned TC houses did. Listen to this converstation beteween me and a friend at Paphos:
-Re, the TCs complain you raised their houses to the ground.Is it true?
-Errr yes, but that was before the Guardian law. We raised them down and builded tenis courts and stuff like that...Aint it better now?

There are another 2 issues, that I will describe briefly
Fague sales through which some people transfered TC tittle deeds to their name through forgery.
There are also rumors that there is a mafia circle thats uses TC properties to make profit throuh renting them illegally.

So after telling the facts what do we have?
1)Any expropriated TC property is compansatable and the TC knows that the money will NOT come from his own pocket. (contrary to the compensations offered to GCs through the Anan Plan)
2)TC title deeds transfered througfh forgery are also recoverable through courts.
3)Properties currently used by mafia are also returnable.
4)Condemned houses are not compensateble
5)Free TC properties or properties currently used legally by refugees are returnable.And these constitute the vast majority.

Given the fact that most TC refugees went to the northern part in 1975 under peaceful conditions (contrary to the GCs who left all their title deeds back there) it should be relatively easy for them to get their properties back for exchange or for sale or whatever they like after a solution.

I am not saying everything is angelic and perfect in the free areas regarding the TC properties. As the case of Mustafa describes (although that is a remote case and NOT the general happening) it is not so. But on the other hand can we compare this situation, with what is happening at the pseudo, where the state itself gives our properties to the settlers and they sell them to foreigners? And not only that, we even see members of this forum cynically expressing joy and applauding this illegality...

[erolz]

But on the other hand can we compare this situation, with what is happening at the pseudo, where the state itself gives our properties to the settlers and they sell them to foreigners?

The vast majority of sales to foreigners is of land that was formerly TC pre 74 or was exchanged for land lost by TC ion south. It is extremly rare in my understanding for foreigners to buy property or land other than in these two categories. I only mention this because it seems from your statement above that the 'normal' example is land being given to settlers and then sold to foreigners and this most certainly is an exception not a rule.

And not only that, we even see members of this forum cynically expressing joy and applauding this illegality...

Could you provide links to this kind of behaviour please? It would make your point stronger and make it clear where you see 'joy' being expressed where perhaps others do not?

Cheers.