Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas

You obviously have MUCH more experience in dealing with partitionists. Well said, again. I like the idea of reducing the area of the secessionist state by the proportion of Turkish Cypriots who opt to remain Republic Citizens. You have a very fair way of thinking about partition.

My information, Nikitas, tells me that as many as 40%-50% of the TC community will want to remain within the areas of the RoC, as RoC citizens -even under a "one man one vote" democracy, and therefore the Turkish secessionist state can only be the 9-11% of Cyprus, i.e. only the Karpas peninsula, up to and including Grivas village (Trikomo /Iskele!)

Murataga will be the muchtar of Iskele, and VP will be the muchtar of Galinoporni!

[denizaksulu]

The key word you used was a "Guarantee" that all this would happen...What has happened so far to assure me that these guarantees exist. How the hell can you take everything that has happened and just dismiss it and then tell me that no-one feels hate against me. What a crock of shit. You seem to live your life like it is ground hog day and are surprised at what happens when the same thing happened yesterday. You can dismiss my fears all you like but they are there and I am the one that has to deal with them.

"No one cares about how I live my life"...Now that is the funniest thing I have heard in years What is the Cyprob then Bir. If it wasn't for the fact that every little detail is what determines how I live my life then the world would be this fictitious place that you seem to think it is. Have you lent any one more money recently...Did you bother to sign and get get signed, a proper contract...No! explains everything. I want my future ensured and not left in the hands of fate and your mamby pamby ideals and the notion that all will be well in the end. We have a president of an illegally formed country that was not only an EOKA terrorist but the author of the Akritas Plan which put him in power in the first place. The long term strategy that was the Akritas Plan has worked and you want to swallow it hook line and sinker but not having enough you are taking the whole rod down your throat. Perhaps when Hitler walked into Poland we should not have worried...France was just a matter of time and the we should have said "No Problem. Lets be friends".


You need to subscribe to another channel other than the Disney Chanel Bir. We do not live in brightly coloured houses with the only worry being "Which fuzzy puppet monster took the cookie". We have real problems to solve. We know who took the cookie but you just want to say "Its fine" while your children's stomachs grumble an d the monster eats the cookie noisily in front of them. We live in the real world my friend in which people are people and not the fictitious love in that you seem to think exists. Ask the GCs to guarantee my rights and then when you get that on paper we can talk but until then we will take the only alternative left to us. They don't want to talk along lines of any other deal except for a total surrender to an illegal state and you tell me that is ok! Get some deals going before you condemn me for getting on with my life after 40 years of no movement. For gods sake...what the hell is wrong with you

Zan..I know my opinions frustrate you sometimes,but just spare a thought about what yours are doing to me??? You and some others are stuck well and truly in a time warp,mate...You cannot see what the world has come to,let alone see what it will be like in 100 years from now...

My option for Cyprus offers the only chance we have of surviving into the next century as Cypriots...If we drop this obsession with our Turkishness" and our "Greekness" and embrace each other as Cypriots in a united fully functioning democratic Republic we might just be able to hold the great globalisation tide back long enough to accertain our survival in the foreseeable future as a distinct nation...

But if we insist on hanging onto the past animosity,bitterness and hatred,which any solution other than full reunification will cement into our hearts and minds forever,we are condemning the future generations to the same cathastrophy we went through...So my formula is double osmosis,the merging of the TCs and GCs into one people,one nation of Cypriots...In a democratic republic which respects human rights and equal opportunity principles...A nation where the notions of "majority" or "minority" do not exist...Only people from different ethnic backgrounds living in respect and harmony...With religion playing less and less an influence on the minds of TCs and GCs,your faith should be no concern of anyone,between you and your God...In my Republic everyone will speak at least 3 languages...Everyone will be proud of our common ancestry :the Great philosophers and warriors of ancient Greece and the Great warriors and philosophers of the East like Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi,Pir Sultan Aptal,Yunus Emre,Karacaoglan, Hodja Nasreddin,Hafiz,Omar Khayyam etc etc...Cypriots will be the most tolerant and most civilised nation in the whole universe...Now isn't that something to strive for>>>????

Great Idea BK. But one problem. How do we go about de-Braining (oops sorry de-brain-washing) those Nationalists on both sides. It might take a few generations at least and only if there is a will. Any ideas? In the UK they have the right idea. There have been a few TC and GC weddings. Should be encouraged, yes? It can also happen in Cyprus.

Selamlar 'Yegen'

[zan]

The key word you used was a "Guarantee" that all this would happen...What has happened so far to assure me that these guarantees exist. How the hell can you take everything that has happened and just dismiss it and then tell me that no-one feels hate against me. What a crock of shit. You seem to live your life like it is ground hog day and are surprised at what happens when the same thing happened yesterday. You can dismiss my fears all you like but they are there and I am the one that has to deal with them.

"No one cares about how I live my life"...Now that is the funniest thing I have heard in years What is the Cyprob then Bir. If it wasn't for the fact that every little detail is what determines how I live my life then the world would be this fictitious place that you seem to think it is. Have you lent any one more money recently...Did you bother to sign and get get signed, a proper contract...No! explains everything. I want my future ensured and not left in the hands of fate and your mamby pamby ideals and the notion that all will be well in the end. We have a president of an illegally formed country that was not only an EOKA terrorist but the author of the Akritas Plan which put him in power in the first place. The long term strategy that was the Akritas Plan has worked and you want to swallow it hook line and sinker but not having enough you are taking the whole rod down your throat. Perhaps when Hitler walked into Poland we should not have worried...France was just a matter of time and the we should have said "No Problem. Lets be friends".


You need to subscribe to another channel other than the Disney Chanel Bir. We do not live in brightly coloured houses with the only worry being "Which fuzzy puppet monster took the cookie". We have real problems to solve. We know who took the cookie but you just want to say "Its fine" while your children's stomachs grumble an d the monster eats the cookie noisily in front of them. We live in the real world my friend in which people are people and not the fictitious love in that you seem to think exists. Ask the GCs to guarantee my rights and then when you get that on paper we can talk but until then we will take the only alternative left to us. They don't want to talk along lines of any other deal except for a total surrender to an illegal state and you tell me that is ok! Get some deals going before you condemn me for getting on with my life after 40 years of no movement. For gods sake...what the hell is wrong with you

Zan..I know my opinions frustrate you sometimes,but just spare a thought about what yours are doing to me??? You and some others are stuck well and truly in a time warp,mate...You cannot see what the world has come to,let alone see what it will be like in 100 years from now...

My option for Cyprus offers the only chance we have of surviving into the next century as Cypriots...If we drop this obsession with our Turkishness" and our "Greekness" and embrace each other as Cypriots in a united fully functioning democratic Republic we might just be able to hold the great globalisation tide back long enough to accertain our survival in the foreseeable future as a distinct nation...

But if we insist on hanging onto the past animosity,bitterness and hatred,which any solution other than full reunification will cement into our hearts and minds forever,we are condemning the future generations to the same cathastrophy we went through...So my formula is double osmosis,the merging of the TCs and GCs into one people,one nation of Cypriots...In a democratic republic which respects human rights and equal opportunity principles...A nation where the notions of "majority" or "minority" do not exist...Only people from different ethnic backgrounds living in respect and harmony...With religion playing less and less an influence on the minds of TCs and GCs,your faith should be no concern of anyone,between you and your God...In my Republic everyone will speak at least 3 languages...Everyone will be proud of our common ancestry :the Great philosophers and warriors of ancient Greece and the Great warriors and philosophers of the East like Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi,Pir Sultan Aptal,Yunus Emre,Karacaoglan, Hodja Nasreddin,Hafiz,Omar Khayyam etc etc...Cypriots will be the most tolerant and most civilised nation in the whole universe...Now isn't that something to strive for>>>????

Bir

I have no problem with the picture you paint and never have had. My problem comes with the way you hope to achieve it. You constantly ignore the realities of what the GC administration has done, and before you ask me to foolishly forget the past, is doing to my people and think that they offer us a way out. For the moment and the foreseeable future being Cypriot is not enough. The Gc administration has done all it can to eradicate any trace of what constitutes being Turkish Cypriot. They fly Greek flags and sing the Greek national anthem They truly believe that Cyprus is theirs...Well it is not and never will be. They will never reduce my part in Cyprus to minority status and have me dancing for the tourists as the only way to celebrate my identity. The Cypriot culture that could have taken off with the formation of the first ever republic on the island was destroyed for that reason as soon as it began. These people do not want us to have a foothold and full representation on the island and never have done. You may want to lay down and take it but I and many like me will not. We have been rulers on the island and now, in essence, we have lost part of our island. We agreed to run the island jointly but had those agreements reneged on. My culture, my language and my people deserve more. I will not be content with anything that is less than that.

[Kifeas]

Bir

I have no problem with the picture you paint and never have had. My problem comes with the way you hope to achieve it. You constantly ignore the realities of what the GC administration has done, and before you ask me to foolishly forget the past, is doing to my people and think that they offer us a way out. For the moment and the foreseeable future being Cypriot is not enough. The Gc administration has done all it can to eradicate any trace of what constitutes being Turkish Cypriot. They fly Greek flags and sing the Greek national anthem They truly believe that Cyprus is theirs...Well it is not and never will be. They will never reduce my part in Cyprus to minority status and have me dancing for the tourists as the only way to celebrate my identity. The Cypriot culture that could have taken off with the formation of the first ever republic on the island was destroyed for that reason as soon as it began. These people do not want us to have a foothold and full representation on the island and never have done. You may want to lay down and take it but I and many like me will not. We have been rulers on the island and now, in essence, we have lost part of our island. We agreed to run the island jointly but had those agreements reneged on. My culture, my language and my people deserve more. I will not be content with anything that is less than that.

Okay Zan, here is the solution! Your OWN recognized partitioned state in 10% of Cyprus, since I am sure almost 50% of your community will choose to remain citizens of Cyprus!

[Viewpoint]

....we want to run our own state just like you run yours if you have that right then why do you deny us? We tried the mixed version and it wnent totally wrong yet division has created a peaceful exsistence . . .

VP, as I said a million times already, if YOU (TCs) want to run your OWN state, then this is PARTITION (I assume this is what you also have meant!) You can only do so if you withdraw to the 18% of the island, and this only if all the members of the TC community would want to follow it! If any percentage of TCs would wish to remain RoC citizens and choose to live outside the territories of YOUR OWN (TC) state, then the area of your OWN state will have to be further reduced accordingly! How more fair can I be, and how more clearly can I explain it? What is it that you do not understand or are not happy with?

Look at it from this perspective will all the GCs get out of our 18%? if the decide to stay then my % will increse or stay the same and as before can you supply an example where land distribution is equated to population ratios? I am not against agree a percentage be it 18% or 25% to end this issue I have expressed this before and woudl have no problem moving into the 18%+.

[Viewpoint]

Bir

I have no problem with the picture you paint and never have had. My problem comes with the way you hope to achieve it. You constantly ignore the realities of what the GC administration has done, and before you ask me to foolishly forget the past, is doing to my people and think that they offer us a way out. For the moment and the foreseeable future being Cypriot is not enough. The Gc administration has done all it can to eradicate any trace of what constitutes being Turkish Cypriot. They fly Greek flags and sing the Greek national anthem They truly believe that Cyprus is theirs...Well it is not and never will be. They will never reduce my part in Cyprus to minority status and have me dancing for the tourists as the only way to celebrate my identity. The Cypriot culture that could have taken off with the formation of the first ever republic on the island was destroyed for that reason as soon as it began. These people do not want us to have a foothold and full representation on the island and never have done. You may want to lay down and take it but I and many like me will not. We have been rulers on the island and now, in essence, we have lost part of our island. We agreed to run the island jointly but had those agreements reneged on. My culture, my language and my people deserve more. I will not be content with anything that is less than that.

Okay Zan, here is the solution! Your OWN recognized partitioned state in 10% of Cyprus, since I am sure almost 50% of your community will choose to remain citizens of Cyprus!

You shouldnt get to excited and go to concensus on both sides to determine % many GCs will not give up their rights to ancestral lands so you better get ready for a suprise as it may turn out to be 29% and not 9% as you seem to think it will be. The 29% has always been the ball park figure in all the negotiaitons and there must be data to support this, if you know where we can find it maybe you can post it for all to read would be very interesting. As you seem to think that the % will inflencr or decision lets agree on the principle we have have recogition and our own state if we can agree a land distribution %, is that your offer?

[phoenix]

I have no problem with the picture you paint and never have had. My problem comes with the way you hope to achieve it. You constantly ignore the realities of what the GC administration has done, and before you ask me to foolishly forget the past, is doing to my people and think that they offer us a way out. For the moment and the foreseeable future being Cypriot is not enough. The Gc administration has done all it can to eradicate any trace of what constitutes being Turkish Cypriot. They fly Greek flags and sing the Greek national anthem They truly believe that Cyprus is theirs...Well it is not and never will be. They will never reduce my part in Cyprus to minority status and have me dancing for the tourists as the only way to celebrate my identity. The Cypriot culture that could have taken off with the formation of the first ever republic on the island was destroyed for that reason as soon as it began. These people do not want us to have a foothold and full representation on the island and never have done. You may want to lay down and take it but I and many like me will not. We have been rulers on the island and now, in essence, we have lost part of our island. We agreed to run the island jointly but had those agreements reneged on. My culture, my language and my people deserve more. I will not be content with anything that is less than that.

Somebody has been reading "Mein Kampf" and it's altered your reality Zan.

Much as you want to imagine yourself in the role of saviour of a dying breed . . . the reality is quite something else.

Your role has only ever been one of invaders of the island. You have never cared for Cyprus or its people. Your nation has subverted all attempts to establish a republic and with that what is best for Cyprus and its people.

Your stance comes from not wanting to lose face in the civilized world that you hide from.

[BirKibrisli]

The key word you used was a "Guarantee" that all this would happen...What has happened so far to assure me that these guarantees exist. How the hell can you take everything that has happened and just dismiss it and then tell me that no-one feels hate against me. What a crock of shit. You seem to live your life like it is ground hog day and are surprised at what happens when the same thing happened yesterday. You can dismiss my fears all you like but they are there and I am the one that has to deal with them.

"No one cares about how I live my life"...Now that is the funniest thing I have heard in years What is the Cyprob then Bir. If it wasn't for the fact that every little detail is what determines how I live my life then the world would be this fictitious place that you seem to think it is. Have you lent any one more money recently...Did you bother to sign and get get signed, a proper contract...No! explains everything. I want my future ensured and not left in the hands of fate and your mamby pamby ideals and the notion that all will be well in the end. We have a president of an illegally formed country that was not only an EOKA terrorist but the author of the Akritas Plan which put him in power in the first place. The long term strategy that was the Akritas Plan has worked and you want to swallow it hook line and sinker but not having enough you are taking the whole rod down your throat. Perhaps when Hitler walked into Poland we should not have worried...France was just a matter of time and the we should have said "No Problem. Lets be friends".


You need to subscribe to another channel other than the Disney Chanel Bir. We do not live in brightly coloured houses with the only worry being "Which fuzzy puppet monster took the cookie". We have real problems to solve. We know who took the cookie but you just want to say "Its fine" while your children's stomachs grumble an d the monster eats the cookie noisily in front of them. We live in the real world my friend in which people are people and not the fictitious love in that you seem to think exists. Ask the GCs to guarantee my rights and then when you get that on paper we can talk but until then we will take the only alternative left to us. They don't want to talk along lines of any other deal except for a total surrender to an illegal state and you tell me that is ok! Get some deals going before you condemn me for getting on with my life after 40 years of no movement. For gods sake...what the hell is wrong with you

Zan..I know my opinions frustrate you sometimes,but just spare a thought about what yours are doing to me??? You and some others are stuck well and truly in a time warp,mate...You cannot see what the world has come to,let alone see what it will be like in 100 years from now...

My option for Cyprus offers the only chance we have of surviving into the next century as Cypriots...If we drop this obsession with our Turkishness" and our "Greekness" and embrace each other as Cypriots in a united fully functioning democratic Republic we might just be able to hold the great globalisation tide back long enough to accertain our survival in the foreseeable future as a distinct nation...

But if we insist on hanging onto the past animosity,bitterness and hatred,which any solution other than full reunification will cement into our hearts and minds forever,we are condemning the future generations to the same cathastrophy we went through...So my formula is double osmosis,the merging of the TCs and GCs into one people,one nation of Cypriots...In a democratic republic which respects human rights and equal opportunity principles...A nation where the notions of "majority" or "minority" do not exist...Only people from different ethnic backgrounds living in respect and harmony...With religion playing less and less an influence on the minds of TCs and GCs,your faith should be no concern of anyone,between you and your God...In my Republic everyone will speak at least 3 languages...Everyone will be proud of our common ancestry :the Great philosophers and warriors of ancient Greece and the Great warriors and philosophers of the East like Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi,Pir Sultan Aptal,Yunus Emre,Karacaoglan, Hodja Nasreddin,Hafiz,Omar Khayyam etc etc...Cypriots will be the most tolerant and most civilised nation in the whole universe...Now isn't that something to strive for>>>????

Great Idea BK. But one problem. How do we go about de-Braining (oops sorry de-brain-washing) those Nationalists on both sides. It might take a few generations at least and only if there is a will. Any ideas? In the UK they have the right idea. There have been a few TC and GC weddings. Should be encouraged, yes? It can also happen in Cyprus.

Selamlar 'Yegen'

Merhaba, yegenim Deniz...

WE would pass a law making it illegal to marry withing your own ethnic community...You know how there was a law against mixed marriages some time ago...We could reverse it totally...

So withing a couple of generations (30 years or so) we will all be Cypriots...I hope you will be around to see it...Myself,I have promised my Karma I will live to be 105...And I intend to keep that promise...

[denizaksulu]

The key word you used was a "Guarantee" that all this would happen...What has happened so far to assure me that these guarantees exist. How the hell can you take everything that has happened and just dismiss it and then tell me that no-one feels hate against me. What a crock of shit. You seem to live your life like it is ground hog day and are surprised at what happens when the same thing happened yesterday. You can dismiss my fears all you like but they are there and I am the one that has to deal with them.

"No one cares about how I live my life"...Now that is the funniest thing I have heard in years What is the Cyprob then Bir. If it wasn't for the fact that every little detail is what determines how I live my life then the world would be this fictitious place that you seem to think it is. Have you lent any one more money recently...Did you bother to sign and get get signed, a proper contract...No! explains everything. I want my future ensured and not left in the hands of fate and your mamby pamby ideals and the notion that all will be well in the end. We have a president of an illegally formed country that was not only an EOKA terrorist but the author of the Akritas Plan which put him in power in the first place. The long term strategy that was the Akritas Plan has worked and you want to swallow it hook line and sinker but not having enough you are taking the whole rod down your throat. Perhaps when Hitler walked into Poland we should not have worried...France was just a matter of time and the we should have said "No Problem. Lets be friends".


You need to subscribe to another channel other than the Disney Chanel Bir. We do not live in brightly coloured houses with the only worry being "Which fuzzy puppet monster took the cookie". We have real problems to solve. We know who took the cookie but you just want to say "Its fine" while your children's stomachs grumble an d the monster eats the cookie noisily in front of them. We live in the real world my friend in which people are people and not the fictitious love in that you seem to think exists. Ask the GCs to guarantee my rights and then when you get that on paper we can talk but until then we will take the only alternative left to us. They don't want to talk along lines of any other deal except for a total surrender to an illegal state and you tell me that is ok! Get some deals going before you condemn me for getting on with my life after 40 years of no movement. For gods sake...what the hell is wrong with you

Zan..I know my opinions frustrate you sometimes,but just spare a thought about what yours are doing to me??? You and some others are stuck well and truly in a time warp,mate...You cannot see what the world has come to,let alone see what it will be like in 100 years from now...

My option for Cyprus offers the only chance we have of surviving into the next century as Cypriots...If we drop this obsession with our Turkishness" and our "Greekness" and embrace each other as Cypriots in a united fully functioning democratic Republic we might just be able to hold the great globalisation tide back long enough to accertain our survival in the foreseeable future as a distinct nation...

But if we insist on hanging onto the past animosity,bitterness and hatred,which any solution other than full reunification will cement into our hearts and minds forever,we are condemning the future generations to the same cathastrophy we went through...So my formula is double osmosis,the merging of the TCs and GCs into one people,one nation of Cypriots...In a democratic republic which respects human rights and equal opportunity principles...A nation where the notions of "majority" or "minority" do not exist...Only people from different ethnic backgrounds living in respect and harmony...With religion playing less and less an influence on the minds of TCs and GCs,your faith should be no concern of anyone,between you and your God...In my Republic everyone will speak at least 3 languages...Everyone will be proud of our common ancestry :the Great philosophers and warriors of ancient Greece and the Great warriors and philosophers of the East like Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi,Pir Sultan Aptal,Yunus Emre,Karacaoglan, Hodja Nasreddin,Hafiz,Omar Khayyam etc etc...Cypriots will be the most tolerant and most civilised nation in the whole universe...Now isn't that something to strive for>>>????

Great Idea BK. But one problem. How do we go about de-Braining (oops sorry de-brain-washing) those Nationalists on both sides. It might take a few generations at least and only if there is a will. Any ideas? In the UK they have the right idea. There have been a few TC and GC weddings. Should be encouraged, yes? It can also happen in Cyprus.

Selamlar 'Yegen'

Merhaba, yegenim Deniz...

WE would pass a law making it illegal to marry withing your own ethnic community...You know how there was a law against mixed marriages some time ago...We could reverse it totally...

So withing a couple of generations (30 years or so) we will all be Cypriots...I hope you will be around to see it...Myself,I have promised my Karma I will live to be 105...And I intend to keep that promise...

I hope you live to 105 and still going yegen

[zan]

I have no problem with the picture you paint and never have had. My problem comes with the way you hope to achieve it. You constantly ignore the realities of what the GC administration has done, and before you ask me to foolishly forget the past, is doing to my people and think that they offer us a way out. For the moment and the foreseeable future being Cypriot is not enough. The Gc administration has done all it can to eradicate any trace of what constitutes being Turkish Cypriot. They fly Greek flags and sing the Greek national anthem They truly believe that Cyprus is theirs...Well it is not and never will be. They will never reduce my part in Cyprus to minority status and have me dancing for the tourists as the only way to celebrate my identity. The Cypriot culture that could have taken off with the formation of the first ever republic on the island was destroyed for that reason as soon as it began. These people do not want us to have a foothold and full representation on the island and never have done. You may want to lay down and take it but I and many like me will not. We have been rulers on the island and now, in essence, we have lost part of our island. We agreed to run the island jointly but had those agreements reneged on. My culture, my language and my people deserve more. I will not be content with anything that is less than that.

Somebody has been reading "Mein Kampf" and it's altered your reality Zan.

Much as you want to imagine yourself in the role of saviour of a dying breed . . . the reality is quite something else.

Your role has only ever been one of invaders of the island. You have never cared for Cyprus or its people. Your nation has subverted all attempts to establish a republic and with that what is best for Cyprus and its people.

Your stance comes from not wanting to lose face in the civilized world that you hide from.

You know me so well and I very little about you...Please tell me a little about yourself...What is your birth sign???MMMMMMmm?