Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

I would really be interested to hear from VP and his/her minions how on earth can they be so sure that GCs are only interested in assimilating the TCs by Osmosis or another way??? If a community live in a democratic country,where they are free to speak their mother tongue,where they can practise their religion,have freedom of association,can form their own political party and compete for votes on an equal footing,how can such a community be absorbed in another,unless they want to do so themselves???

Come on people...Lets stop this never ending repetition of the stock phrases and old pasee propaganda slogans..Lets discuss this matter in a civilised way,based on facts...I am open to all ideas,as long as they are based on reality...Why should in this day and age,in the middle of the prosperous EU community,where Cyprus is becoming more and more multicultural,and less and less Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot,should any one community be preoccupied with archaic ideas like assimilating others by Osmosis,whatever that means??????

I will tell you what that means Bir.....It means that you will be explaining to everyone that you meet that you are in fact not Greek but a Turkish Cypriot. We will be waiting for handouts to open Turkish schools and amenities from a Greek based government. We will have areas dedicated to us but they will be known as Turkish enclaves where slums will develop because it will take decades for the GCs to ever come to terms with us as partners again. The hill will become a mountain to climb and the courts will be full of applications for all types of human rights struggles. Many will leave out of the ones that are left after the GCs decide who is and isn't a proper Cypriot. We will become even less than we are now and even more of a minority in Greek terms.

Why the hell would we want to take ourselves out of a position of power and start all over again. We have tasted the freedom of that power and the right to determine our own future so why the hell would we do that to ourselves. How old are you....Give away all your possessions and start again.....See how that feels. I am a Turkish Cypriot from the TRNC/KKTC...OR...I am a full partner in the "Cyprus Republic" either or will do and nothing else.

Pyros is right,Zan...I was more interested in hearing why and how you think Osmisis or assimilation can happen in this day and age in the middle of The EU...???But you took the easy option and gave us more of your old and paranoid fears...As far as I am concerned all this fearmognering has lost all credibility...You would be more believable if you said there are still elements in the GC society who hate TCs and would like to wipe them from the face of the earth. But how on earth can you take the twisted wishes a very small minority,and apply it to all GCs without discrimination???No one is suggesting that we shut down the trnc tonight and start living in the RoC tomorrow morning...I am talking about an orderly and agreed transitional process where our basic human rights (freedom from physical abuse,religious worship,mother tongue,equal opportunity in employment,voting rights etc) would be guaranteed to TCs satisfaction...And as long as the agreed end result is a fully democratic republic based on the rule of law and not on discriminatory ethnic considerations,I am sure we can get the GCs to come to the party...

Now please tell me how could a priviledged minority of 20% be assimilated against their wish if they are able to call on the help of international courts and EU human rights criteria????

Enough of this archaic fears and scaremongering...Hear what people are telling you.No one gives a damn about what language you speak or what religion you follow,as long as you do not insist that those two factors should give you rights and priveledges no other community enjoys in a functioning democracy... People are not interested what cultural traditions you hold dear,or whether you cut a bit off your dick,as long as you don't insist everybody else should be doing the same,or else go and live in another state....Get over this phobia of victimisation and osmosis...And lets return to the ranks of civilised human beings who believe in a fair go for all,and justice for those who have suffered greatly through no fault of their own... I have gone blue in the face telling this,but it needs to be told again and again,because you guys are not listening...Insisting on partition and your own state where you will be in the majority forever,will only result in perpetuating the present bitterness and sense of injustice in the majority of our compatriots...There is no way the mistrust and hatred harboured by some will go away if what people see is a divided country with one side hiding behind a foreign army and sticking their fingers up to all notions of fair go and justice for all...The end result would inevitably be further bloodshed and prolonged suffering for a great number of Cypriots,and what for???Because of your inability to show empathy and compassion for your compatriots???Your inablilty to find the courage to say "I am strong and will survive anything,as I did between 1963-74" and "I am capable of looking after my own in a level playing field which is a fully functioning democratic republic??? Lets all come to our senses before another 2,3 or 4 generations goes through what the last 3 generations has gone through...

The key word you used was a "Guarantee" that all this would happen...What has happened so far to assure me that these guarantees exist. How the hell can you take everything that has happened and just dismiss it and then tell me that no-one feels hate against me. What a crock of shit. You seem to live your life like it is ground hog day and are surprised at what happens when the same thing happened yesterday. You can dismiss my fears all you like but they are there and I am the one that has to deal with them.

"No one cares about how I live my life"...Now that is the funniest thing I have heard in years What is the Cyprob then Bir. If it wasn't for the fact that every little detail is what determines how I live my life then the world would be this fictitious place that you seem to think it is. Have you lent any one more money recently...Did you bother to sign and get get signed, a proper contract...No! explains everything. I want my future ensured and not left in the hands of fate and your mamby pamby ideals and the notion that all will be well in the end. We have a president of an illegally formed country that was not only an EOKA terrorist but the author of the Akritas Plan which put him in power in the first place. The long term strategy that was the Akritas Plan has worked and you want to swallow it hook line and sinker but not having enough you are taking the whole rod down your throat. Perhaps when Hitler walked into Poland we should not have worried...France was just a matter of time and the we should have said "No Problem. Lets be friends".


You need to subscribe to another channel other than the Disney Chanel Bir. We do not live in brightly coloured houses with the only worry being "Which fuzzy puppet monster took the cookie". We have real problems to solve. We know who took the cookie but you just want to say "Its fine" while your children's stomachs grumble an d the monster eats the cookie noisily in front of them. We live in the real world my friend in which people are people and not the fictitious love in that you seem to think exists. Ask the GCs to guarantee my rights and then when you get that on paper we can talk but until then we will take the only alternative left to us. They don't want to talk along lines of any other deal except for a total surrender to an illegal state and you tell me that is ok! Get some deals going before you condemn me for getting on with my life after 40 years of no movement. For gods sake...what the hell is wrong with you

[Nikitas]

Zan says he needs "guarantees that we [the TCs] are always the majority in the north state" meaning the northern Turkish component state of a Federal Cyprus. How can that be guaranteed though!

In a truly federal state the people are free to settle in whichever part they want. What will happen if enough Turkish Cypriots decide to settle in the southern areas of Limassol, Famagusta, Paphos and Larnaca where most of the industry and business of the island is located? Brings me back to the "now you got it what are you going to do with it?" quandrum.

Zan might want to think that all Turkish Cypriots live like he does, but apparently not manhy do, witness the thousands who come south every day to work, shop, do other business, unhindered and unmolested. In the end the Federal state might end up with a Greek Cypriot majority in the north under Turkish Cypriot administration, and most Turkish Cypriots in the south under Greek Cypriot administration. The situation is not unimaginable, but what guarantees do we have that if and when that happens we wont have another round of "need to protect the Turkish minority" crap being rekindled in the federal south?

These concerns have no place in a modern society. But to become modern we have to leave behind this obsession with 1963 and other sad dates.

[utu]

Nikitas,

That's a good point. But it probably will end up being only GC's being able to vote in south state and TC's only being able to vote in north state, regardless of who lives where.

[Viewpoint]

Zan says he needs "guarantees that we [the TCs] are always the majority in the north state" meaning the northern Turkish component state of a Federal Cyprus. How can that be guaranteed though!

In a truly federal state the people are free to settle in whichever part they want. What will happen if enough Turkish Cypriots decide to settle in the southern areas of Limassol, Famagusta, Paphos and Larnaca where most of the industry and business of the island is located? Brings me back to the "now you got it what are you going to do with it?" quandrum.

Zan might want to think that all Turkish Cypriots live like he does, but apparently not manhy do, witness the thousands who come south every day to work, shop, do other business, unhindered and unmolested. In the end the Federal state might end up with a Greek Cypriot majority in the north under Turkish Cypriot administration, and most Turkish Cypriots in the south under Greek Cypriot administration. The situation is not unimaginable, but what guarantees do we have that if and when that happens we wont have another round of "need to protect the Turkish minority" crap being rekindled in the federal south?

These concerns have no place in a modern society. But to become modern we have to leave behind this obsession with 1963 and other sad dates.

So what your saying is forget the past and allow us to swamp you both north and south of the border....we want to run our own state just like you run yours if you have that right then why do you deny us? We tried the mixed version and it wnent totally wrong yet division has created a peaceful exsistence not only for TCs but also GCs, this you have to concede and accept that today is much better then yesterday. No problems happen in the south becuase the EU is watching and TCs go home after a hard days graft, mixed this woudl not be the case and you would have more opportunity to create havoc and blame us for it.

[DT.]

Zan says he needs "guarantees that we [the TCs] are always the majority in the north state" meaning the northern Turkish component state of a Federal Cyprus. How can that be guaranteed though!

In a truly federal state the people are free to settle in whichever part they want. What will happen if enough Turkish Cypriots decide to settle in the southern areas of Limassol, Famagusta, Paphos and Larnaca where most of the industry and business of the island is located? Brings me back to the "now you got it what are you going to do with it?" quandrum.

Zan might want to think that all Turkish Cypriots live like he does, but apparently not manhy do, witness the thousands who come south every day to work, shop, do other business, unhindered and unmolested. In the end the Federal state might end up with a Greek Cypriot majority in the north under Turkish Cypriot administration, and most Turkish Cypriots in the south under Greek Cypriot administration. The situation is not unimaginable, but what guarantees do we have that if and when that happens we wont have another round of "need to protect the Turkish minority" crap being rekindled in the federal south?

These concerns have no place in a modern society. But to become modern we have to leave behind this obsession with 1963 and other sad dates.

So what your saying is forget the past and allow us to swamp you both north and south of the border....we want to run our own state just like you run yours if you have that right then why do you deny us? We tried the mixed version and it wnent totally wrong yet division has created a peaceful exsistence not only for TCs but also GCs, this you have to concede and accept that today is much better then yesterday. No problems happen in the south becuase the EU is watching and TCs go home after a hard days graft, mixed this woudl not be the case and you would have more opportunity to create havoc and blame us for it.

minorities don't run their own states. They live with added protections in a democracy. Or do you think the white minority still runs South Africa?

[Eric dayi]

Zan says he needs "guarantees that we [the TCs] are always the majority in the north state" meaning the northern Turkish component state of a Federal Cyprus. How can that be guaranteed though!

In a truly federal state the people are free to settle in whichever part they want. What will happen if enough Turkish Cypriots decide to settle in the southern areas of Limassol, Famagusta, Paphos and Larnaca where most of the industry and business of the island is located? Brings me back to the "now you got it what are you going to do with it?" quandrum.

Zan might want to think that all Turkish Cypriots live like he does, but apparently not manhy do, witness the thousands who come south every day to work, shop, do other business, unhindered and unmolested. In the end the Federal state might end up with a Greek Cypriot majority in the north under Turkish Cypriot administration, and most Turkish Cypriots in the south under Greek Cypriot administration. The situation is not unimaginable, but what guarantees do we have that if and when that happens we wont have another round of "need to protect the Turkish minority" crap being rekindled in the federal south?

These concerns have no place in a modern society. But to become modern we have to leave behind this obsession with 1963 and other sad dates.

So what your saying is forget the past and allow us to swamp you both north and south of the border....we want to run our own state just like you run yours if you have that right then why do you deny us? We tried the mixed version and it wnent totally wrong yet division has created a peaceful exsistence not only for TCs but also GCs, this you have to concede and accept that today is much better then yesterday. No problems happen in the south becuase the EU is watching and TCs go home after a hard days graft, mixed this woudl not be the case and you would have more opportunity to create havoc and blame us for it.

minorities don't run their own states. They live with added protections in a democracy.

Greek style democracy? No thanks.

Or do you think the white minority still runs South Africa?

You can't even sort your own problems out so try not to overload your tiny mind over other peoples problems.

[Nikitas]

From the above response I gather that you would have some kind of control then to keep the Turkish Cypriots IN the federal state of the north. Something like a cage. What I was asking is how do yo prevent people from moving and settling where they like. Do you make it an offence? Fine them?

How long do you think someone can stand living in Kyrenia and working in Limassol, traveling back and forth every day. Littel everyday details like that make a difference, sometimes greater difference than might sounding words. Now how you got from that to plans to swamp you etc is the mystery.

[DT.]

Zan says he needs "guarantees that we [the TCs] are always the majority in the north state" meaning the northern Turkish component state of a Federal Cyprus. How can that be guaranteed though!

In a truly federal state the people are free to settle in whichever part they want. What will happen if enough Turkish Cypriots decide to settle in the southern areas of Limassol, Famagusta, Paphos and Larnaca where most of the industry and business of the island is located? Brings me back to the "now you got it what are you going to do with it?" quandrum.

Zan might want to think that all Turkish Cypriots live like he does, but apparently not manhy do, witness the thousands who come south every day to work, shop, do other business, unhindered and unmolested. In the end the Federal state might end up with a Greek Cypriot majority in the north under Turkish Cypriot administration, and most Turkish Cypriots in the south under Greek Cypriot administration. The situation is not unimaginable, but what guarantees do we have that if and when that happens we wont have another round of "need to protect the Turkish minority" crap being rekindled in the federal south?

These concerns have no place in a modern society. But to become modern we have to leave behind this obsession with 1963 and other sad dates.

So what your saying is forget the past and allow us to swamp you both north and south of the border....we want to run our own state just like you run yours if you have that right then why do you deny us? We tried the mixed version and it wnent totally wrong yet division has created a peaceful exsistence not only for TCs but also GCs, this you have to concede and accept that today is much better then yesterday. No problems happen in the south becuase the EU is watching and TCs go home after a hard days graft, mixed this woudl not be the case and you would have more opportunity to create havoc and blame us for it.

minorities don't run their own states. They live with added protections in a democracy.

Greek style democracy? No thanks.

Or do you think the white minority still runs South Africa?

You can't even sort your own problems out so try not to overload your tiny mind over other peoples problems.

Cartman said tiny mind!! Must be all that logical debating he does

[Pyrpolizer]

Nikitas,

The "guarantees and safeguards" that VP always refers to, are those applicable to a 2 state solution... They know very well in such a small place the Federal structure cannot last for ever. It will just provide the safety the TC community needs for some 20-30 years.

[Nikitas]

Pyro,

It is debatable if a two state structure can last either. Unless they seal the border to keep people IN, not out, there will be movement and concentration where the maximum level of economic activity will be. It is a scenario played over thousands of times and going on today everywhere in the world. Andorra and San Marino come to mind, where most people step outside the borders to find work.

From responses here it seems that not a single partition minded person ever thinks of the day to day practicalities of the situation. Nor does anyone test assumptions against reality.