Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

humanist bbf means turkey is still got a hold of the north and a big say overall...screw bbf lets go for a bbq instead...cyprus belongs to all cypriots unconditionally

[humanist]

booms why does BBF have to mean that why can't the parties involved define it. I am assuming that we vote people who represent our views not their, therefore this what we get. We all set goals in life and then we work on them. if the Talat administration is set ut for partition in disgiuise that is what is fighting for, if the Papadopoulos adminstration has total saturation that's is what is seeking. What I asaying identify your goals and if they match then the parties involved ccan work and rework policies to get there.

As far as Turkey is involved it then needs to be asked by the UN & EU repsectively to define what and how it perscieves te Cypro and what is proposing and then those two entities respectively work what is acceptable unacceptable and cosequences
and they need to act on it. TURKISH EXCLUSSION OF CYPRIOT ships, that ought o be questioned in respect ; if this was another country would we be making these allowance or not. Boom there is the answer. next question what would we do in this situation, boom there is the answewr, so on and so forth.

[humanist]

VP I appreciate the misundersatnding I believe we are different places with our dominant story. The them and us, situation.

[boomerang]

re humanist, do you think talat holds any power...he has as much say as you and I have...why should Paps, a reognised president od a recognised country have to stoop so low?

after watching the interview, my mind has changed...for an arrogant asshole to say there is no more refugees because they are re habilitated, then the question is why then moan and groan...he should also get used to the isolatin...they are also rehabilitated...

screw the BBF and lets go one person one vote...you don't like it...tough...moan and groan together with turkey jerky aqnd as far as away from the EU...let 70 million poor souls suffer and stay forever slaves to europe with their limited cheap labour, because everything is going to china as we speak and coz all the services will be bought out by the EU...

When they got nothing left to sell then we can sit and discuss the liberation of our country...I am slowly and surely starting to see what piradis is saying...

and further more i would like to put the talks on hold for 10 years because the way i see it there are problems brewing in turkey jerky as we speak...and i would like to negotiate at that time...I have spoken to a few kurds during my travels and these guys are serious about claiming a third of turkey jerky...we should be doing everything we can to help these guys to achieve their goal...there many ways you can skin a fox...

Also we should be promoting the annan plan to the kurds seeing that tuekey jerky likes it so much...this gives me an idea, i will start propmoting on every kurd forum the annan plan...

viva la kurdistan

[paliometoxo]

im with u boom!

[paliometoxo]

"Turkey should begin the withdrawal of troops from Cyprus.

It worthy of note to read what the Chairman of the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Joseph Biden. The Senator is a presidential contestant in the Primary for the 2008 Democratic Nomination. The message was received by his Wilmington Helenic supporters from Biden's office.See photo with some of his supporters in a recent fundraising event.

"WASHINGTON, D.C., July 28, 2007 -- "Turkey should begin the withdrawal of troops from Cyprus. The presence of these forces is neither justified nor necessary and complicates efforts to return the island to a state of lasting peace," said the Chairman of the United States Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Joseph Biden. "Since 2003, there have been millions of peaceful crossings at the Green Line that separates the island's two communities. Cypriots of all ethnicities have clearly demonstrated their ability to coexist," said Chairman Biden before the United States Senate on July 26, 2007"


this american guy is talking sense

[humanist]

booms

re humanist, do you think talat holds any power...he has as much say as you and I have...why should Paps, a reognised president od a recognised country have to stoop so low?

after watching the interview, my mind has changed...for an arrogant asshole to say there is no more refugees because they are re habilitated, then the question is why then moan and groan...he should also get used to the isolatin...they are also rehabilitated...

screw the BBF and lets go one person one vote...you don't like it...tough...moan and groan together with turkey jerky aqnd as far as away from the EU...let 70 million poor souls suffer and stay forever slaves to europe with their limited cheap labour, because everything is going to china as we speak and coz all the services will be bought out by the EU...

When they got nothing left to sell then we can sit and discuss the liberation of our country...I am slowly and surely starting to see what piradis is saying...

and further more i would like to put the talks on hold for 10 years because the way i see it there are problems brewing in turkey jerky as we speak...and i would like to negotiate at that time...I have spoken to a few kurds during my travels and these guys are serious about claiming a third of turkey jerky...we should be doing everything we can to help these guys to achieve their goal...there many ways you can skin a fox...

Also we should be promoting the annan plan to the kurds seeing that tuekey jerky likes it so much...this gives me an idea, i will start propmoting on every kurd forum the annan plan...

viva la kurdistan

Booms firstly I agree with you after that interview my perception of the majority of TC's has changed incredibly. If that is the general belief then they are lying to the RoC and the rest of the world about wanting unification.. I was even going to visit the occupied areas when I arrive in cyprus but I think that plan will have to wait for now. I lost all trust.

As far as talat goes I would assume two thing at this moment one he has not power and happily plays at the whims of Turkey.

or he is a racist fascist lying individual who has been voted and trusted by his people to bring them out of their predicament.

Neither helpful for a cuntry that is supposedly heading toward unification.

However if I were Mr Papadopoulos I will have to approach the issue from the perspective that TC's have no willingness for unification their sole aim is recognition of trnc and to this end I would be negotiating for that not to occur in any veenue and any opportunity he has to talk to the world.

Seconly I apologise to Mr papadopoulos because I was one of the first to criticize him for not meeting with Talat. I guess he knew all along this man's direction. I say bypass him. If Turkey wants EU membership the EU need to make it clear if they want to grant membership to a country that occupies an EU territory. If not then they need to ask Turkey to remove forces.

About your coment re: Turkey's love of the AP I had to chucle but hey if you like so much implement it in relation to Kurdistan. Perhaps the UN need to begin negotiating with Turkey on that matter.

You make a valid point that the TC's have also been rehabilitated. What a word to describe the plight of refugees. Anyhow if that is the word he used wecan apply it toward his community.

That TV interview placed Cyprus 20 years behind. Yet there are people on this forum who support it. I don't like our chances for peace. Time once again will tell.

[BirKibrisli]

What we have to remember is that Talat is a product of the AKP and cannot do anything but what he is told by Gul and Erdogan...I see only one way of peacefully reuniting Cyprus...For Tpapa to make enough changes in the RoC to attract as many TCs as he can to settle there...

Then he can declare the 1960 constitution fully operational and give the TCs in the South their rights as dictated by the Constitution...And when the rightfully elected TC Vice president calls for the removal of the Turkish troops and the occupation of the 37% of Cyprus end,fully supported by the TCs living in the South,that would signal the beginning of the end of the Cyproblem...The international pressure would be just too much for Turkey to bear under those circumstances.
It is time to think creatively and act courageously..The alternative now is certain Partition...

[Viewpoint]

What we have to remember is that Talat is a product of the AKP and cannot do anything but what he is told by Gul and Erdogan...I see only one way of peacefully reuniting Cyprus...For Tpapa to make enough changes in the RoC to attract as many TCs as he can to settle there...

Then he can declare the 1960 constitution fully operational and give the TCs in the South their rights as dictated by the Constitution...And when the rightfully elected TC Vice president calls for the removal of the Turkish troops and the occupation of the 37% of Cyprus end,fully supported by the TCs living in the South,that would signal the beginning of the end of the Cyproblem...The international pressure would be just too much for Turkey to bear under those circumstances.
It is time to think creatively and act courageously..The alternative now is certain Partition...

Bir you need courage and vision to take such measures, Papadop cannot do this as he has neither, he has taken an oath towards enosis and will never take such measures has he still believes that isolation and time will make TCs beg the GCs for a solution at which stage he will get 100% of his demands and a GC state covering the whole island with born. He has not caluculated that TCs are more resilient than he thinks and will not fall into that trap, we feel so strongly that we would ratehr unite with Turkey than give into his twisted vision for us. Saying all this we are on track for agreed/recognized partition maybe not in the near future but definately in the future and the GCs can blame themselves for their lack of flexiblity, vision and compromise, as long as they keep up their current performans they will hand it to us on a plate.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

VP I do understand, my understanding is that you see Cypriots as two different and distinct people, you may see them as good and the evil the red and the blue. That is the essence of your argument.

You maybe right but its no different from the French Germans and Italians in Switzerland. I do not have anything against anyone but I will be damned if I will allow GCs to sole rule a united Cyprus without safeguards to ensure they do not sell us out to the Greeks, you may cliam this will never happen then why not have safeguards that hopefully will never be called upon if Gc are so confident then whats the problem with providing such safegaurds, their refusal send out the wrong messages and makes TCs question even further their true intentions.

There are no safegurads in place because you are not proposing those. You leeader very clearly stated that he is pushing for partition. At the moment Cypriots of other camp prefer to live with the status quo.

Humanist you must understand the TC mentality today in the TRNC, 80% of people have given up on anything happening with GCs. The Gc policies and standpoint have just backed up and created people like me who can only envisage agreed partition, so Talats viewpoint is a product of GC intragience and bloody mindedness and very genral in the north so dont be to suprised as Tcs have passed throught he tunnel of demanding unification without any result and a slap in the face to boot. It will take a great deal of effort on behalf of the the GCs to convince them of their sincerity in wanting a fair solution that we can all commit to, and obviously that effort will never materialize you to can see this fromthe lack of initiative taken by your leadership.

Otherwise the peopl would have demanded via demonstraions pushing for the leaders to communicate and compare drafts of what they propose to be a just fair and equal society for all Cypriots to live in one Island nation without anyone right violations. one lot you marched once to get rid of Denktas twice in 2004 around the EU membership, some of you have marched on the otherside of the divide.

If Tcs want something they will protest and take the necessary actions but what should we fight for union with Gcs who display they want osmosis which for us means absorbtion of TCs, no TC will voice unificaiton on this ideology. Actions count louder than all the hot air that comes out of Papadop, if you people believe in unficiaiton so much why arent you on the streets protesting that your leaders compromise and reach an agreement, all we see is that you are re-elecitng and ex eoka Turks hater yet again, just imagine the message this sends to your so called "compatriots".

I really don't care nor am I comfortable with knowing that should i be in Cyprus I would be amonsgt what you term 80%, because I am a Cypriot just like Zan Kikapu Bir Piratis and Kifeas. Can you try to understnd where I am coming from please, thank you.

I do understand but try looking at it from this side of the fence we do not want to live in a GC state as foreigners.

No I cannot dig up the post, am sorry for that and I would like to clarify that it was also my interpretation not word for word what you said. Sorry about that.

Thank you for your spology as I did not say Maranoite shoudl have any less rights than an average GC as they sided with you guys and can only expect to get what you get no more no less.

To some extend I agree with your proposal I agree to the part where under the federal Umbrella of the Un-ited States of Cyprus, where the policy makers act on social policy making, ensures that rights of each individual. I think a number of Cypriots currently living in the south would choose to reclaim the property, keep it sell it live in it whatever they choose to do with it. At the moment the choice to choose is not given to one portion of the population. By that I mean the talat administration is bloking it. With valid reasons behind it, no doubt about that. Similarly the another portion of the population feels the same. Hence going nowhere, talking honestly genuinely with sincerety will bring along many more fuits thtan theu one we have now.

Imo the property issue can be solve in 2 ways either via a comprehensive solution or by each individual taking it upon themselves to utilize avenues open to them today eg Gcs could apply to our property commission for return or compensation or even now exchange and TCs could live south for 6 months to go to court to claim their rights. Ill let you decide which is best.

Once again let me reiterate my point I don't believe that the best solution is two separate State because that still divides people to them and us. So long as we have them and us we have Cyprus problem, generations after generations.

The 2 state solution can be a stepping stone to build trust and understanding if all goes well then we remove the structure as it will no longer be useful but to counter this would you accept that if there were problems and the states could not make it work we divide forever? eg like Serbia and Montenegro.

The way I see it is like climate change if we don't act now we fuck it up for future generations. The moment Cyprus has two leaders who are inspirational enough spiritual (not religious) enough leaders to sit together and discuss how they can bring together the people of Cyprus to belong to one homogenous group, I am sad that there will be a Cypro. Sorry for going deep in to it that is my beliefe about the Cyprus problem I can yell scream and pull my hairs out over the net but the above is a statement of my personal view of the Cypro. Whether the capitalist system will allow two such people to embrace the Cypro and resolve it I am not sure.

The Tcs are also sad that we cannot find a solution but believe that we will never find one with the GCs thinking they way they do and they have even come to terms with being assimilated into a more Turkish way of life, thats how strongly we feel about not accepting what GCs demand that will creat a GC state with control over the whole island run by GCs.

To follow from that, the bureaurcrats who dish out the dough for this situation, have taken it from the wrong perspective, I sincerely do not believe this is a political issue I see it as socio-racial. If this is identified and some money was made available for structural issues such as housing and re-building abandined vilgaes, towns citties then the problem is solved.

Money ought to be spent in more unification programs if that is where the talat administration wants to go becase thus far it has proven that it is all over the shop. they say two state solution, they agreed on the AP etc. whilst the other side has I believe they have been more predictable with the BBF unification. Now if that what bothe communities agree upon it why not sit down and define it together., parlaimanetarians echange programs, youth programs talking it out, is it time talat accepted to work with papdopoulos on the invitation for the use of lemesos or is it time to work on a deal for Varosha. Something that will gain a little bit for everyone., otherwise it is iddle and therefore wasted.

This is a perspective I know many Tcs would agree with but to have vision and courage to take these positive steps we need such leader which do not exsist in Cyprus.