Cyprus-Forum.com

[donyork]

The number of Greek Cypriots living in the north — that is the area now known as the TRNC — in July 1974 was 129,000. Cited source: Criton Tornaritis, the Attorney-General of the Greek Cypriot Administration, in document Legal Aspects of the Problem of Refugees in Cyprus 1975. The number of Turkish-Cypriots who lost their homes in the south (as presently defined) between 1963 and July 1974 was 25,000 (source: UN Security Council report 1964) and the numbers subsequently displaced in population transfers was 65,000 (source: evidence to the UN by Turkish Cypriot documents 1975 re Vienna III).

On this basis the number of ‘refugees’ — those forced out, or those who abandoned homes because of fears of one side or another or under population exchange agreement— would be 129,000 Greek Cypriots and 90,000 Turkish Cypriots.

If these figures are NOT correct, what are the correct figures, and what sources are there to support these? Figures without cited sources are worthless — please do not waste space and time citing propaganda figures for we all know what these are. I am only interested in authoritative sources, not speculation or point-scoring. This goes for both sides. I do not state the figures quoted above as fact, merely as reported fact which is not necessarily the same thing. SOURCES please with any figures quoted. No source. No figure.

[donyork]

Stupid to ask this question under ‘trapped lawyer’ as I did — remembering that the topic then went way off track. So more sensibly i have posted this as a separate topic. Let's hope that does not also end up on something entirely different, as the other one did.

[insan]

edited

[Othellos]

Othellos,
OK you keep this attitude up, and Im sure it will benefit GC TC relations both on and off the forum. You are a very good example of why I have been moving more and more for partition as the best solution.

You have not answered my question yet, Viewpoint: if you cannot use the word "theft" or "roberry" to describe Turkey's 1974 actions in Cyprus with respect to GC properties, then which word would you use?

O.

[Viewpoint]

The explanantion I would use would be the result of;

WAR

which was caused by us, Greek Cypriots/Greeks lit the fuse and Turkey was the bomb which exploded in your face, the result of which we parted ways and have been divided to date.

Maybe you should redirect your bitterness and anger towards your politicians and call them "thieves" for not negotiating in good faith the return of your homes, over the last 30 years. We didnt negotiate the Annan plan on our own, there was more that enough input from your representatives, who in hindsight we not genuine in their contribution.
This issue can continue for another 100 years and still not be resolved, your comments and attitude confirms this and as long as you do not change we will continue to go around in circles.

[Othellos]

The explanantion I would use would be the result of;

WAR

which was caused by us, Greek Cypriots/Greeks lit the fuse and Turkey was the bomb which exploded in your face, the result of which we parted ways and have been divided to date.

Maybe you should redirect your bitterness and anger towards your politicians and call them "thieves" for not negotiating in good faith the return of your homes, over the last 30 years. We didnt negotiate the Annan plan on our own, there was more that enough input from your representatives, who in hindsight we not genuine in their contribution.
This issue can continue for another 100 years and still not be resolved, your comments and attitude confirms this and as long as you do not change we will continue to go around in circles.

So Viewpoint, would you agree with me that Turkey's 1974 invasion resulted to the stealing of the homes of thousands of Cypriots by Turkey?

I will be the first to agree that certain (many) past and present GC politicians were / are incompetent, stupid, unskilled or even dishonest. But at the end of the day, it is still Turkey that keeps thousands of GCs away from their homes by force, and this is a fact that you seem unwilling to understand. So much for "constructive" attitudes.

O.

[insan]

So Viewpoint, would you agree with me that Turkey's 1974 invasion resulted to the stealing of the homes of thousands of Cypriots by Turkey?

Othellos,

Is there any thief that after stealing anyones belongings promise to give a part of it back when agreed upon certain conditions, related with vital necessities of the "thief" that was under oppression and extortion of the other "thief"?

Furthermore is there any thief that when stealing someones belongings leave his/her belongings for exchange?

Moreover... The one who claims was robbed, robbed the "thief" long before the "thief" robbed him/her.

Now tell me what kind of robbery is this and who is the thief, who is the innocent.

[MicAtCyp]

Could you kindly clarify this point and stop referring to us as thieves.

I asked what you replied to her comment that she only lived there for 3 months.

Furthermore Viewpoint I said "receiver of stolen goods".
This does not necessarily classify each and every TC as a thief. But yes those who sell properties that are not theirs are thieves and those who buy them are receivers of stolen goods.
TCs who just use GC properties are not thieves except those who say "now it is mine". Most of the settlers say "now it's mine" so yes they are thieves too.

Of course you may say that under your "law" everything is perfectly legal. Well viewpoint, frankly speaking the original thief is actually the pseudo itself, with it's law No 159 which is a basic law of it's constitution.

For your information heres an example of a TC that I do not consider a thief, but simply a victim of circumstances:

The best friend of my wife visited her house at the occupied area.The TCs living in, literally striked them with their kindness and their warmth. They invited them for dinner next week.The TC man looked after the garden and made it look like a small paradise.Perhaps that was an effort to show how good take he is taking of the place he uses to live. And of course they told them they are expecting the date the Cyprus problem will be solved and each one gets his properties back, or exchange them etc. Can I call that family thieves? Of course not!

****************************************************
Donyork sorry but everybody can claim a typing error especially when typing wrong figures.The GC refugees were not 129,000! (the second figure is wrong). The TCs who moved to the north after the 3rd Vienna aggreement were not 65,000. And those who moved between 63-74 did not lose their properties. In addition to the 74 refugees we had the Karpasia Penissula refugees who were forced to leave gradually in subsequent years. And between 63-74 we also had refugees from the subburbs of Trachonas, Omorfita, and all the northern part of Nicosia.
Regarding evidence i beleive it is your responsibility to provide links rather than typing questionable figures.

[donyork]

They are not my figures, but cited figures in other reports. I asked for sources in quoting figures. You have not provided any. Anyway, I moved this to another topic, since lawyer trapped is hardly relevant, but still await figures supported by authoritative sources. What otherwise is the point.

[insan]

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/UNFICYP.html

The details of events of 1964 by the witnesses.

Expulsions
THE Cypriot Turks were expelled from all Government offices and ministerial posts and virtually dumped in the streets. They now believed they were in mortal danger, despite the Vice-President's call for calm.

Matters were made worse when Eoka strongman Nicos Sampson, the killer of British troops in the back, went on state radio and ordered his supporters to storm Cypriot Turkish enclaves. Violence escalated out of control. Although widespread massacres of Cypriot Turks were taking place throughout the island, they were fighting back and inflicting serious casualties on their attackers. A brutal civil war was taking place. (Several years later, the Greeks admitted implementing their "Akritas Plan", the intention of which was to wipe-out the Cypriot Turks in a series of carefully co-ordinated attacks by massive force. It failed due to the resistance of the Cypriot Turks who had also planned for such an eventuality, although outnumbered and out-gunned.)

CYPRUS AND ITS CONSTITUTIONAL

AND OTHER LEGAL PROBLEMS BY

CRITON G. TORNARITIS, Q.C.,

Attorney-General of the Republic.

On the 26th June 1967 the Greek Cypriot House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution declaring that "... It would not suspend the struggle. . . until this struggle ends in success through the union of the whole and undivided Cyprus witlz the motherland, without any intermediary stage"and by the end of 1967 the Greek Cypriot armed elements who had combined to form one single task force with 20,000 Greek army personnel clandestinely brought to Cyprus attempted to finish off the Turkish Cypriot resistance by attacking the Turkish Cypriot inhabitants of Geçitkale (Kophinou) and Bogaziçi (Ayios Theodoros). This activated Turkey to come to the aid of the Turkish Cypriots. In order to avert Turkey's intervention the attack on Turkish Cypriots was stopped and Greek Cypriot leaders agreed to have inter-communal talks which began in June 1968. These talks lasted - on and off - until the coup of July 1974, but although near-agreements were reached, several times the Greek Cypriot leadership refused to settle the problem on the basis of "inter-communal partnership Republic guaranteed against Enosis."

http://www.geocities.com/pkpanteli/CyprusProblem.htm