Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I agree with you MicAtCyp, he should have been pursuing the legal aspect not making personal visits to English residents, from what a couple told me saying you only have 3 months left in this property, why dont you leave now. Id call that harassment wouldnt you?? I dont expect you to agree!!!

[boulio]

2 english residents of northern cyprus found dead in there house in Lapitho

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=514687

[erolz]

2 english residents of northern cyprus found dead in there house in Lapitho

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=514687

I heard about this yesterday morning. It has left the expat community here in deep shock. I can not read the article above (as it's in Greek). The couple were eldery (70+), had been living in Cyprus for 18+ years and were well respected and liked by all - Cypriot and Expat. They were 'good souls' devoting their time and efforts to many charitable organistations in Cyprus. I only knew them passingly, having met them at a few charitable events. My partner knew them well however, and they had been very goog to us (as they were with all 'new' arrivals in Cyprus) when we first arrived, helping her with serveral things. My partner was 'distraut' when she heard the news and in shock.

It would appear that they were brutally murdered (stabbed and strangled) when they returned home to find their house being robbed - though this is based on the current 'gossip'. Apparently their bodies lay on their patio from tuesday night till they were discovered friday morning. Apparently (though I can not confirm this) a person was arrested in connection with this crime late friday night.

Like I said above this has left the expat community here in severe shock. There is a general sense of 'numbness' here and a general feeling of 'this kind of thing does not happen in Cyprus'.

RIP Anne and Reece and may justice be served on your killers

[Othellos]

Agios Amvrosios whos harassing who?? the lawyer has been harassing English residents in Karmi for some time now, nothing new ( I know a few English people who live in that village)so the complaints were going to be addressed by the police sooner or later.
He should be fighting his legal battles in your courts or in UK courts not knocking on doors in Karmi Village.

The complaints made by those who occupy illegally all those GC houses in Karmi should have been expected. The Orams case is at the back of their minds and all they want is to keep the properties that were stolen from their real GC owners.

I wonder if all these real estate agents who advertise publicly the sale of GC houses and properties in the occupied areas can also be taken to court...For those TCs who do care for reunification (withut quotes) and a solution, they should understand that although some in the occupied areas may be making a temporary profit by "selling" away our homes, this will not get us anywhere near a solution.

O.

[erolz]

The complaints made by those who occupy illegally all those GC houses in Karmi should have been expected. The Orams case is at the back of their minds and all they want is to keep the properties that were stolen from their real GC owners.

I wonder if all these real estate agents who advertise publicly the sale of GC houses and properties in the occupied areas can also be taken to court...For those TCs who do care for reunification (withut quotes) and a solution, they should understand that although some in the occupied areas may be making a temporary profit by "selling" away our homes, this will not get us anywhere near a solution.

O.

I still find this focus on Karmi strange? Of all the former GC properties Karmi is unique. Unlike elsewhere the properties in Karmi have never been 'awarded' or 'given' to anyone. The whole area is 'owned' by the TRNC and all residence there are tennants only. The awarding of these tennacies is what has made Karmi and the properties there the place that it is today (and maybe that's why it is such a focus for GC?). The properties there have been looked after, maintained and improved - at the tennants expense (unlike many of the former TC properties held 'in trust' in the south). Why then direct anger at these tennants that neither own your properties and have actually maintained them and improved them? Like I say I find this confusing.

[Othellos]

I still find this focus on Karmi strange? Of all the former GC properties Karmi is unique. Unlike elsewhere the properties in Karmi have never been 'awarded' or 'given' to anyone. The whole area is 'owned' by the TRNC and all residence there are tennants only. The awarding of these tennacies is what has made Karmi and the properties there the place that it is today (and maybe that's why it is such a focus for GC?).

Some questions about Karmi: has the occupation regime "leased" on a long term basis GC houses to foreigners? What are the typical "lease" period and typical "rent" in cases like this? Did this "policy" apply only in Karmi or in other areas throughout occupied Cyprus as well? And why was Karmi a choice?

The properties there have been looked after, maintained and improved - at the tennants expense (unlike many of the former TC properties held 'in trust' in the south). Why then direct anger at these tennants that neither own your properties and have actually maintained them and improved them? Like I say I find this confusing.

The issue here is not whether GC properties in the occupied areas have been well maintained by their current inhabitants or not. Instead, the issue is about them "buying" (or "renting") property that was stolen from its real GC owners in 1974. If there is a "focus" in Karmi and in cases where foreigners "purchased" (or "rented") GC properties then this is probably done to discourage others from doing the same. I have my doubts however as to whether there is such a "focus".

O.

[erolz]

Some questions about Karmi: has the occupation regime "leased" on a long term basis GC houses to foreigners? What are the typical "lease" period and typical "rent" in cases like this? Did this "policy" apply only in Karmi or in other areas throughout occupied Cyprus as well? And why was Karmi a choice?

My understanding is that the leases are granted from anywhere between 1 year and 49 years. I believe Karmi is the only (or certainly 'main') place this policy has been persued.

There is a little info here (from a property company site)

http://www.victorianconstructioncy.com/ ... yprus.html

f) There is also the method of leasing land or property from the Government. These are usually derelict houses, which the Government will lease out for periods up to 49 years to foreigners who renovate the property at their own expense, and who pay a nominal ground rent for the lease period. An excellent example of the manner in which this scheme has been operated can be seen in Karaman (Karmi) Village, which is a credit to the Minister of Tourism and his staff.

The issue here is not whether GC properties in the occupied areas have been well maintained by their current inhabitants or not. Instead, the issue is about them "buying" (or "renting") property that was stolen from its real GC owners in 1974. If there is a "focus" in Karmi and in cases where foreigners "purchased" (or "rented") GC properties then this is probably done to discourage others from doing the same. I have my doubts however as to whether there is such a "focus".

O.

Well the would seem to be such a focus to those living there. It would also seem that Karmi has been the 'focus' of Constantinos Candounas as well. This may well be because Karmi is almost totaly populated by expats (I know of no TC living in Karmi - there are one or two retired Turkish Generals living there I think). However if the issue is how easy it may be to return properties to GC after a settlment then Karmi represents a less difficult senario than eslewhere - precisely because the land remains under TRNC 'ownership'. The TRNC - as far as I understand it has made no 'profit' from these properties - yet have found a way for them to be maintained, looked after and in most cases substaintialy improved - whilst still keeping 'ownership' that could make their transfer back to pre 74 owners a lot easier than where title deeds have been issued (almost everywhere else in the North).

I understand how sensative and emotional the property issue is to GC. I do not seek to 'belittle' this position at all. I am just confused why Karmi seems to attact so much GC attention (and anger) when in fact comparatively it represents a 'better' possibility for the return of properties following a settlement. There is much evidence that Karmi has attacted a disproprotionate degree of GC attention and I am trying to understand why this is the case. Maybe it's because the residence there are almost all or are all non cypriots. Maybe it is because it probably remains the most 'GC' of villages in stlye and appearance (but without any GC currently) of any place in the North (lots of white buildings with blue shutters). Maybe it is because the percived value of these properties is greater than elsewhere (because it has been so well looked after and improved by the residence there).

There have been many accuastions of 'intimidation' from residence in Karmi by GC - and certainly disproportioantely so. From hostily and verbal abuse to anoymous death threats and the waving of knives at residence.

Personally I find Karmi a very 'unnatural' place. It is more like a 'model village' than a real one to me. There are strict restrictions on the residence there in terms of what they can do with the properties - even restrictions on what colour they can paint the outsides and the like. At the end of the day though the properties there would be easier to return to the pre 74 owners than anywhere else (and those properties would generally be in better condition and higher value as well) than just about any other in the North. So I remain confused at the (disproportionate to other areas) hostility it seems to be subject to by GC?

[donyork]

I do not know why Karmi had been singled out by this GC lawyer as the setting for his next stage performance but it has long been a target, the target, for GC press publicity. British newspapers are taken there by minder and the villagers — Brits and Germans mainly but also others — must be the most interviewed of all expats (see The Times and Telegraph for instance). One reason is perhaps that it is not compensation property and there are no TCs living there, not even as shopkeepers. It is a pure foreign enclave. That may have been the attraction, but it was very poor reasoning for a lawyer. It matters not whether you are for or against bu Karmi is the weakest target for a legal campaign since none of the expats have title — they merely hold rent and repair tenancies. So in law, any action for ‘illegal occupation or posssession’ would have to be directed against the landlord which is the TRNC and which granted the leases — anyone with other than a Soviet mindset should recognise that. A second weakness, for a lawyer, that a mass action against one village where everyone knows each other, is likely to produce a collective backlash — which is why he ended up being arrrested. In short, bad law, bad tactics, bad lawyer.

[Viewpoint]

2 english residents of northern cyprus found dead in there house in Lapitho

Very sad news, but Im sure the Greek Cypriots on the forum will be rejoicing, that these children of satan have been wiped out, and no longer occupy stolen GC property. Just think the English people will now be scared, just another negative point for buying in the north.

Lets wait and see who killed these well respected people may they RIP, lets hope it has no connection with the south.

[erolz]

Very sad news, but Im sure the Greek Cypriots on the forum will be rejoicing, that these children of satan have been wiped out, and no longer occupy stolen GC property. Just think the English people will now be scared, just another negative point for buying in the north.

I do not think this is fair comment viewpoint. If anything it could be you yourself who could be seen to take a tradgic and sad event and 'politicising it'. As someone who knew these pour souls personaly (all be it only slightly) I personaly find this distasteful.

Lets wait and see who killed these well respected people may they RIP, lets hope it has no connection with the south.

There is absolutely no indication what so ever that this event is connected to the south in any way and any speculation, however slight, that it could be is not constructive or as the english say 'cricket'.