Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

SN,

You talk about long terms policis of Greece, yet in terms of territorial losses it is Greece that has come off the worse from these "long term policies", having lost territory and/ or influence not only in Asia Minor but also all areas where Hellenism was thriving around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea (non Turkish territories).

Also in terms of minority treatment, after the nonsense of the cold war years, the minorities in Greece have an infinitely better treatment than the minorities that were trapped in the north of Cyprus. Namely the Gypsies, the Cypriots of Karpasia and the few Maronites. One must ponder whether the way of life, the standrd of living and the enjoyment of individual liberties of Turks on Rodos and Kos is better or worse than the corresponding standards of Turkish Cypriots in the north of Cyprus. In my view the Turks of these two islands are better off.

Now as to the "curse of the Greek Cypriots on Cyprus". How are the indigenous people a curse on the later arrivals? I can trace my family roots in Cyprus to several centuries before the arrival of the Turks. How is that a curse for Turkish Cypriots? It is a mysterious comment you made there.

Can you point to a single statement made by any Greek politician of any party made since 1990 that shows any kind of attachment to Enosis sentiment or even a desire to take a dominant position in Cyprus? The picture I have of Greece is that it is glad to be rid of the Cyprus issue relying on the idea that Cyprus decides and Greece merely supports. As for the military side of things, can you point to even one instance when the Greek Navy or Air Force have challenged Turkish superiority in the space between Crete and Cyprus?

In your post SN I detect one of those late blooming Greek "democrats" who are ready to condemn the Junta but forget that not one single state operative resisted the coup of 1967. In Cyprus the police and civilians took up arms and resisted the coup of 1974 and had the invasion not happened it was a matter of time before the coup would have been defeated. And that resistance to the coup and its deeper meaning is the guarantee to Turkish Cypriots that they will not suffer the fate of the Turkish population of Crete. I think Cypriots here will know what I mean even if you dont catch my drift.

[SN]

SN (or SouthernNeighbour, or SoutherComfort, or Karavanas, or EPOP or KAMENOS), τσίμπα 25 Σ.ΕΞ. Not that you go out that much anyway...

Giati de tsimpas esy ta arhidia mou kiolas pou goustareis e?
I ll do you in due time dont worry

[halil]

SN,
Why Turkish minority in Greece can not choose their own MÜFTİ ? Greece is in EU.

[alexISS]

SN (or SouthernNeighbour, or SoutherComfort, or Karavanas, or EPOP or KAMENOS), τσίμπα 25 Σ.ΕΞ. Not that you go out that much anyway...

Giati de tsimpas esy ta arhidia mou kiolas pou goustareis e?
I ll do you in due time dont worry

Yawn... ΠΕ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΙ κωλόψαρο...

[SN]

SN (or SouthernNeighbour, or SoutherComfort, or Karavanas, or EPOP or KAMENOS), τσίμπα 25 Σ.ΕΞ. Not that you go out that much anyway...

Giati de tsimpas esy ta arhidia mou kiolas pou goustareis e?
I ll do you in due time dont worry

Yawn... ΠΕ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΙ κωλόψαρο...

Mipws pou kai tsa pisoglenti?

hahahhahah

[Nikitas]

Halil,

For the same reason that the Patriarch in Istanbul is appointed by the state- the same treaty governs both appointments. You should have known better than to ask!

[Nikitas]

SN and Alexiss,

English please, so our Turkish Cypriot friends on the forum can appreciate Greek mainland intellectual discourse!

[alexISS]

SN,
Why Turkish minority in Greece can not choose their own MÜFTİ ? Greece is in EU.

Why should the Muftis be elected in Greece when they are appointed by the government in Turkey? Muftis MUST be appointed by governments because they are more than religious leaders, they have judicial authority as well. Do you expect people to "vote" for their judges?

[alexISS]

Mipws pou kai tsa pisoglenti?

hahahhahah

Yaaaaaaaawn....
Can't come up with anything better than stupid sexual "innuendos"?
You really need to go out more

[halil]

Halil,

For the same reason that the Patriarch in Istanbul is appointed by the state- the same treaty governs both appointments. You should have known better than to ask!

Turkey does not appoint the Patriarch.
on the forum most of u describing Turkey that she has no respect to human rights same applies to Greece as well.
Just to look at the Turkish Minority in THRACE.
As u are saying Turkey has got very bad notes.

here is the basic report . This report comes from civilised world.

With the expansion of the Ottoman Empire during the twelfth century in the Balkans, Turks settled in Western Thrace, in the North East part of Greece and today the estimated population of ethnic Turks living in this area is around 150.000. Members of the Muslim Turkish Minority identify themselves as ethnic Turks.
Although Greece has been a member of the European Union for 25 years, has signed and ratified most of the international instruments protecting basic human rights, unfortunately continues to ignore its obligations regarding the recognition and the protection of the rights of the Muslim Turkish Minority of Western Thrace as well as the rights of other existing ethnic minorities in Greece, such as the Macedonian minority.
Our 24-year-old association has been participating to the UN Working Group on Minorities since 1998. The Greek delegation by using the right to reply has been showing the good will; however, it is embarrassing to receive insults such as “so-called NGO”. By appraising our statements, as “allegations” is only misleading the truth.
In recent years, the situation has relatively improved in Turkish Minority’s living conditions and constitutional rights under the current policy of “equality before the law and equal citizenship” Yet there has not been any progress in the field of established minority rights.

DENIAL OF ETNIC IDENTITY
The major violation is the violation of the right of the minority to identify itself as Turkish. In the first half and earlier second half of the 20th century, Greek authorities made it obligatory for the minority to be named as “Turkish” and its members as “Turks”. This policy later was changed. The designation of the minority associations as “Turkish” has been forbidden. Consequently, several Turkish Minority associations, which had been active since the early thirties, were banned by court order. To note that two applications on that issue are before the European Court of human Rights.
In article 1 (1), (2) of the UN Declaration on Persons Belonging to Minorities is stated that:
“States shall protect the existence and national or ethnic, cultural, religious and linguistic identity of minorities and shall adopt appropriate legislative and other measures to achieve those ends.”
These principals are also supported by article 2 (4) of the same Declaration and Article 19 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Greece continuously denies the existence of the Turkish Minority and other ethnic minorities within the country. Therefore, we would like to recommend once again to Greece to recognize the existence of the Turkish Muslim Minority of Western Thrace.

EDUCATIONAL RIGHTS
According to articles 40 and 41 of the Treaty Peace of Lausanne of 1923, Turkish Minority’s education has an autonomous statue. These articles provide equal rights for the minority to establish, manage and control at their own expenses any school. However local authorities systematically undermines the autonomy of the minority education system through different ways such as selection, training and appointing teachers to these schools.
Article 4 (3) of the UN Declaration on the rights of persons Belonging to Minorities states that:
“States should take appropriate measures so that, wherever possible, person belonging to minorities has adequate opportunities to learn their mother tongue.”
Article 26 (1), and (3) of the UN Declaration of Human Rights also supports the to mother tongue education.
Minority students cannot benefit from the 9-year compulsory education because of some specific reasons. There are no longer well-trained teachers for the instruction in Turkish. By establishing nursery schools teaching only the Greek language in almost every village inhabited by Turks, Greece violates the right of the minority to learn the mother tongue, which is protected by national, international and bilateral instruments.
RELIGIOUS RIGHTS AND CHARITABLE FOUNDATIONS
Members of the Muslim Turkish Minority of Western Thrace cannot benefit from the right to elect their own religious leaders and manage their charitable foundations. The Treaty of Lausanne of 1923 and the Athens Treaty of 1913 gives the right to minority to elect their own religious leaders and manage their charitable foundations.
Greece refuses to recognize the elected religious leaders and the charitable foundations are still under the occupation of the state appointed management.
In article 6 (g) of the UN Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion of Belief states the right to:
“Train, appoint, elect, designate by succession appropriate leaders called for by the requirements and standards of any religion of belief”.
Article 18 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights also guarantees these rights.
It would be important to note that Greece has been sentenced 5 times of abusing article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
I would like to remind to Greek state that in Muslim countries the Muslim religious leaders (muftis) may not be elected, however, the non-Muslim religious leaders are elected.
Finally Mr. Chairman I would like to recommend to the Greek government to stop violating human and minority rights and ratify the Council of Europe Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities.


Nikitas what else we can say. İt is not only Turkey.......
it is easy for u and for me to copy and paste many reports concerning about Turkey and Greece.

Try to find how we can established bridges between our motherlands as well.