Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

VP the ball is in your court. Can you give some examples of what steps the RoC can take to demonstrate that it has genuine intentions?

Working with the TRNC to solve property matters for both GCs and TCs, by using the property commission, allowing direct trade and flights without recognition of the TRNC. There are plenty of steps if there is a will and obviously the GC do no thave the will or the vision to win over the TCs.

VP, didn't your new master from Turkey only yesterday say to you that the "realities" in Cyprus are that -besides the existence of two distinct "people," languages and religions; there are also two "distinct states" and two "distinct democracies?"

If your master has said this to you, why are you asking from the RoC to allow direct trade and flights? Why do you need permission from the RoC, if there are two separate and distinct states in Cyprus?

[humanist]

Can you see that you are forcing 200, 000 people to do what you want them VP/ That is in relation to the blasted property commission what if people don't want to sell their property? Do you seriously think that there is nothing essentially wrong with saying to people you can no longer have acces to your propsert and you ave to accept a compensation that I tell you you have to take?

What steps can Talat administration take to ensure that once direct trade begings the trnc will not push for partition and recognistion of the trnc.

Why doesn't the trnce allow the right of return for refugees that want to return for exchange of direct trade with plans to unify the country within a set period of time?

[CopperLine]

I'm in a rush so can't elaborate here properly, but

(i) there are historical wrongs which might not or cannot be rectified or remedied but from which peace and equality may still flow ...

(ii) the Cyprus problem is not uniquely terrible either in degree or duration, even comparing with other parts of Europe, never mind the rest of the world. These others have been resolved - including where ther had been invasions, expulsions, property loss, disappearance, extra-judicial killings, etc, way beyond anything experienced by Cypriots. So why the impasse here ?

(iii) the demand tom acknowlege 'war guilt' has a profoundly unfortunate history in Europe. To demand this acknowledgement (wrongs of invasion/intervention etc) before negotiations is the single biggest barrier to progress. (What was the way around this after the debacle of the first war peace treaties (Versailles) ? By the end of the second world war the allies demanded nothin less than unconditional surrender !

[Viewpoint]

VP the ball is in your court. Can you give some examples of what steps the RoC can take to demonstrate that it has genuine intentions?

Working with the TRNC to solve property matters for both GCs and TCs, by using the property commission, allowing direct trade and flights without recognition of the TRNC. There are plenty of steps if there is a will and obviously the GC do no thave the will or the vision to win over the TCs.

VP, didn't your new master from Turkey only yesterday say to you that the "realities" in Cyprus are that -besides the existence of two distinct "people," languages and religions; there are also two "distinct states" and two "distinct democracies?"

If your master has said this to you, why are you asking from the RoC to allow direct trade and flights? Why do you need permission from the RoC, if there are two separate and distinct states in Cyprus?

Kifeas you still have problems understanding that you have to get TCs on board with you guys otherwise we have no choice but to side with Turkey why are you so blind to this fact, can you cut off the hand that feeds you? We only want recognition becuase we knwo you will never take measure thats will creat a level playing field, you are incapable and do not have the desire to treat us as 2 equal states and I think you know full well why.

[SN]

Viewpoint asked about the Turks of Crete.

The Turkish minority of the island was finally removed under the 1923 exchange of populations provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne. Before that, especially in the last half of the 19th century Crete went through a process of rebelliion against Ottoman rule. Coincidentally, it happened about the same time that other Ottoman possessions in the Balkans, like Bulgaria, rebelled and sought independence. It was not a unique case.

There was no genocide in Crete. There were clashes between the two communities and casualties from the several attempts by Turkish troops to control the Greek insurrection. Crete effectively united with Greece by 1900, yet there were still Turks living on the island to be removed by the treaty of Lausanne in 1923. That is proof enough that there was no "genocide" under Greek control.

It is also interesting that the minority was removed with Turkey's initiative. Something that did not happen with the Turks of Kos and Rodos because these islands reverted to Greece from Italian control after World War II. Turkey did not have possession or say in the matter, thus did not have the chance to apply its usual method of forced population movements. Where it did have control, like Imvros and Tenedos, the results were catastrophic for the local population and in Istanbul they were even worse.

End result?? No Turks end of story.

Which ever you put it if you hand over an island to Greece there is a high risk that we could have faced the same fate under worse or better terms. If you are unable to see the risk and fear this would and did bring about in the TCs then you are being bloody minded for the sake of it. Enosis was the worst idea ever especially at a time when we had the oportunity to achieve what so many so called "Cypriots" call for oday to build a nation but instead the GCs had their fingers crossed when they signed the 1960 agreements as they felt it was a stepping stone to giving Cyprus to Greece, thats where the GCs messed up big time and shoudl be looking to rectify the situation not come out on top with lame excuses and lots of hot air.

Actually i totally agree.If indeed Cyprus got united with Greece back in the 50's,then it is probable that you would have the same fate like the Turks of Crete.
Crete had astonishing similarities to Cyprus and let me correct Nikitas,that Crete was united with Greece officially in 1913 even though the ''Kritiki Politeia'' self proclaimed union with Greece in 1908.

Given the fact that the GC are the majority in Cyprus,Turkey is well aware that when and if the geopolical balances allow it,Greece shall have the last word.In fact it is my opinion that the invasion of Cyprus merely bought time for the TC community.My feeling is that with the cunning politics of the GC side in the very far future Cyprus will end up exactly like Crete.But this is just an opinion,since i am full aware of the policies Greece uses in the long run.The fact that GC live in Cyprus is a curse for the TC if you ask me....

[DT.]

Viewpoint asked about the Turks of Crete.

The Turkish minority of the island was finally removed under the 1923 exchange of populations provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne. Before that, especially in the last half of the 19th century Crete went through a process of rebelliion against Ottoman rule. Coincidentally, it happened about the same time that other Ottoman possessions in the Balkans, like Bulgaria, rebelled and sought independence. It was not a unique case.

There was no genocide in Crete. There were clashes between the two communities and casualties from the several attempts by Turkish troops to control the Greek insurrection. Crete effectively united with Greece by 1900, yet there were still Turks living on the island to be removed by the treaty of Lausanne in 1923. That is proof enough that there was no "genocide" under Greek control.

It is also interesting that the minority was removed with Turkey's initiative. Something that did not happen with the Turks of Kos and Rodos because these islands reverted to Greece from Italian control after World War II. Turkey did not have possession or say in the matter, thus did not have the chance to apply its usual method of forced population movements. Where it did have control, like Imvros and Tenedos, the results were catastrophic for the local population and in Istanbul they were even worse.

End result?? No Turks end of story.

Which ever you put it if you hand over an island to Greece there is a high risk that we could have faced the same fate under worse or better terms. If you are unable to see the risk and fear this would and did bring about in the TCs then you are being bloody minded for the sake of it. Enosis was the worst idea ever especially at a time when we had the oportunity to achieve what so many so called "Cypriots" call for oday to build a nation but instead the GCs had their fingers crossed when they signed the 1960 agreements as they felt it was a stepping stone to giving Cyprus to Greece, thats where the GCs messed up big time and shoudl be looking to rectify the situation not come out on top with lame excuses and lots of hot air.

Actually i totally agree.If indeed Cyprus got united with Greece back in the 50's,then it is probable that you would have the same fate like the Turks of Crete.
Crete had astonishing similarities to Cyprus and let me correct Nikitas,that Crete was united with Greece officially in 1913 even though the ''Kritiki Politeia'' self proclaimed union with Greece in 1908.

Given the fact that the GC are the majority in Cyprus,Turkey is well aware that when and if the geopolical balances allow it,Greece shall have the last word.In fact it is my opinion that the invasion of Cyprus merely bought time for the TC community.My feeling is that with the cunning politics of the GC side in the very far future Cyprus will end up exactly like Crete.But this is just an opinion,since i am full aware of the policies Greece uses in the long run.The fact that GC live in Cyprus is a curse for the TC if you ask me....

i'm sorry oh balanced and fair one...does our very existence on this island disturb you? Are we a nuisance to you?

[Pyrpolizer]

ksehaston, einai se riksi me to perivallon tou.(he is is conflict with his environment)

[SN]

i'm sorry oh balanced and fair one...does our very existence on this island disturb you? Are we a nuisance to you?

Actually the only thing that disturbs me is your accent in Greek,other than that i am fine with my ''aderfia tous Kyprious'' lol

When i understand what you say i am fine.Also your politics is like the 67 Papadopoulos era.But that is fine also since i am not the one living in a divided country by the two main players(Greece and Turkey),so i am kinda 50-50% when it comes to my feelings about Megaloniso.

[alexISS]

SN (or SouthernNeighbour, or SoutherComfort, or Karavanas, or EPOP or KAMENOS), τσίμπα 25 Σ.ΕΞ. Not that you go out that much anyway...

[pitsilos]

fenete etsimbise polles fores toutos