Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race.

Would it be Aparthid for Switzerland, Belgium and the ex Serbia Montenegro???

[CopperLine]

Piratis, aka Mr 18%, wrote,

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race

But earlier - and thousands of times before - he has written,

The TCs who are the 18%, wanted and continue to want to use force in an effort to gain a lot more power than what proportionately belongs to them on our loss.

[my emphasis added]

And this is the numbe of the problem that Mr 18% just doesn't get, and why he absolutely cannot claim to be at one and the same with Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela. Those two and many others like them did NOT campaign for group or collective rights, they organised on the basis of citizen equality and on human rights grounds. Every time Mr 18% mentions 'proprtionality' or such notions he is ditching human rights and equality claims in favour of collective or group claims. He can't have it both ways.

Virtually every single post of Piratis repaets the TC- GC group rights argument. And of course he's perfectly entitled to do so. What he is not entitled to do is to claim to be in the good company of Martin Luther King Mandela. Even a nano-second of historical recollection would have reminded you, Piratis, that apartheid was precisely a system of segregation built upon differential 'group' rights - remember 'bantustans' ? Somehow you recast Mandela as a supporter of group rights. Don't even get me started on the nonsensical claims over Martin Luther King

It really is very simple : either your are committed to a notion of humanr rights, equality and citizenship, or you're committed to a notion of group rights, national rights and proportionality. Your choice Mr 18% - but you ain't having it both ways.

[Piratis]

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race.

Would it be Aparthid for Switzerland, Belgium and the ex Serbia Montenegro???

No, and I wouldn't have a problem if we have what they have in those countries as long as we are given back our rights and properties, the Settlers go, and people are allowed to return to their homes.
Then TCs can have the same control over the villages they are the majority as the French speaking Belgians have in the areas they are the majority in Belgium.

What you want however is to steal our land and ethnically cleanse us from a big part of our homeland, and replace us with the Turkish settlers that you brought illegally from Turkey. Also you want a level of power for your minority way more than any of the other groups in those other countries.

So don't confuse what they have in those countries with what you are trying to force in Cyprus with the 40.000 Turkish troops which are illegally occupying our country.

[Kifeas]

Halil,

Is this the same bridge that was removed few months ago.??

If so, does that mean "peace" is gone.??

it is the same bridge.

subject was racism ,
wall is removed but racism is still exciting

Halil, if I start talking about racism, nationalism, bigotry and chauvinism, with examples; I can assure you there won't be a place for TCs like you and some others in this forum to hide themselves, for what you have been supporting all along as a community; and starting with your attitude and role in the formulation, support and acceptance of the final version of the Annan plan!

[Piratis]

Piratis, aka Mr 18%, wrote,

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race

But earlier - and thousands of times before - he has written,

The TCs who are the 18%, wanted and continue to want to use force in an effort to gain a lot more power than what proportionately belongs to them on our loss.

[my emphasis added]

And this is the numbe of the problem that Mr 18% just doesn't get, and why he absolutely cannot claim to be at one and the same with Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela. Those two and many others like them did NOT campaign for group or collective rights, they organised on the basis of citizen equality and on human rights grounds. Every time Mr 18% mentions 'proprtionality' or such notions he is ditching human rights and equality claims in favour of collective or group claims. He can't have it both ways.

Virtually every single post of Piratis repaets the TC- GC group rights argument. And of course he's perfectly entitled to do so. What he is not entitled to do is to claim to be in the good company of Martin Luther King Mandela. Even a nano-second of historical recollection would have reminded you, Piratis, that apartheid was precisely a system of segregation built upon differential 'group' rights - remember 'bantustans' ? Somehow you recast Mandela as a supporter of group rights. Don't even get me started on the nonsensical claims over Martin Luther King

Do YOU accept one undivided Cyprus, with just equal Cypriot citizens, no official references to any "Turkish Cypriots" or "Greek Cypriots", but just 100% equal Cypriots without "majorities" and "minorities", and one person one vote?

I accept that 100%. So if you Turks would allow me, I would be 100% in line with what Mandela and King dreamed about. So what do you say?

The only reason I talk about 18%, is that this 18% wants to be separated. Apparently thought they think that by being separated they can get way more than if they were just equal Cypriot citizens (which is exactly what the Whites did in the south Africa of Apartheid). They want their 18% to be given the 50% of power, which in effect would mean that each TC would have 4.5 votes more than other Cypriots. Therefore I say the obvious, that if they want to be separated, then they should get proportional power (land etc), so each one TC will still be equal to each other Cypriot.

Clear?

[Viewpoint]

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race.

Would it be Aparthid for Switzerland, Belgium and the ex Serbia Montenegro???

No, and I wouldn't have a problem if we have what they have in those countries as long as we are given back our rights and properties, the Settlers go, and people are allowed to return to their homes.
Then TCs can have the same control over the villages they are the majority as the French speaking Belgians have in the areas they are the majority in Belgium.

What you want however is to steal our land and ethnically cleanse us from a big part of our homeland, and replace us with the Turkish settlers that you brought illegally from Turkey. Also you want a level of power for your minority way more than any of the other groups in those other countries.

So don't confuse what they have in those countries with what you are trying to force in Cyprus with the 40.000 Turkish troops which are illegally occupying our country.

We are not reinventing the wheel Piratis all we want is a BBF with political equality as supported by the UN EU and most of the international community, it you guys that are fight tooth and nail to create a GC state with us TCs as just another minority, we will never give up our community rights for your to trample all over us reducing us to foreigners in our own country.

[denizaksulu]

Wrong. We would be glad to share power with TCs, as long as this is done proportionately and democratically.

The TCs who are the 18%, wanted and continue to want to use force in an effort to gain a lot more power than what proportionately belongs to them on our loss.

So contrary to what the article says, we support that each Cypriot should be equal, with equal rights and responsibilities. Just like it happens in all other democratic countries in the world.

However the Turks, just like the Nazis, want to divide Cypriots based on their race, and give more power and rights to the people of the "Arian" Turkish race, and less rights to the Greek Cypriots. More or less what the Turks used to do when the ruled Cyprus for 3+ centuries and oppressed Greek Cypriots by imposing on them twice as much taxes and treating them like 3rd category people. If thats the kind of "sharing" that you want, no thanks. When you accept that we can share power in Cyprus among equal Cypriot citizens without racist discriminations, and in a democratic way as it happens in all other democratic countries in the world then let us know.

Can I remind you, Piratis, that the Greek speaking population of Cyprus under the Latins were no more than serfs. No right, no nothing. The arrival of the Ottomans changed all that. They made you the masters of your own destiny. You had your own church, the only church, and your own leaders. You keep on forgetting the positives and always remember the negative aspects. I wonder why? Pure hatred seeps through your skin. You should take free_cyprus' advice.

[humanist]

Racism, ..... pause for a moment and ask yourself ......... which of my acts, thoughts and ideas are racism free? then you may see that you have no position to question soeone else about the racist ideology.

[DT.]

Piratis, aka Mr 18%, wrote,

And by the way, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela fought for equality of all people regardless of their race and against segregation and Apartheid. Thats exactly what we fight for today, against those that want to segregate and divide the Cypriot people, and impose an Apartheid system where the rights of a citizen will depend on his race

But earlier - and thousands of times before - he has written,

The TCs who are the 18%, wanted and continue to want to use force in an effort to gain a lot more power than what proportionately belongs to them on our loss.

[my emphasis added]

And this is the numbe of the problem that Mr 18% just doesn't get, and why he absolutely cannot claim to be at one and the same with Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela. Those two and many others like them did NOT campaign for group or collective rights, they organised on the basis of citizen equality and on human rights grounds. Every time Mr 18% mentions 'proprtionality' or such notions he is ditching human rights and equality claims in favour of collective or group claims. He can't have it both ways.

Virtually every single post of Piratis repaets the TC- GC group rights argument. And of course he's perfectly entitled to do so. What he is not entitled to do is to claim to be in the good company of Martin Luther King Mandela. Even a nano-second of historical recollection would have reminded you, Piratis, that apartheid was precisely a system of segregation built upon differential 'group' rights - remember 'bantustans' ? Somehow you recast Mandela as a supporter of group rights. Don't even get me started on the nonsensical claims over Martin Luther King

:roll: Do [b]YOU accept one undivided Cyprus, with just equal Cypriot citizens, no official references to any "Turkish Cypriots" or "Greek Cypriots", but just 100% equal Cypriots without "majorities" and "minorities", and one person one vote? [/b]I accept that [b]100%. So if you Turks would allow me, I would be 100% in line with what Mandela and King dreamed about. So what do you say? [/b]
The only reason I talk about 18%, is that this 18% wants to be separated. Apparently thought they think that by being separated they can get way more than if they were just equal Cypriot citizens (which is exactly what the Whites did in the south Africa of Apartheid). They want their 18% to be given the 50% of power, which in effect would mean that each TC would have 4.5 votes more than other Cypriots. Therefore I say the obvious, that if they want to be separated, then they should get proportional power (land etc), so each one TC will still be equal to each other Cypriot.

Clear?

can someone please tell me what is wrong with what Piratis states there?

[Piratis]

We are not reinventing the wheel Piratis all we want is a BBF

Thats very funny VP. You are talking as if "BBF" was invented before and it exists in many other countries.

The truth is that this "BBF" is nothing more than a vague term. In your mind this "BBF" is something that would give to you our land and legalize the violations of our human rights. Sorry, but thats not the case.

I already said to you above that you can have have what the French Belgians have in Belgium, as long as the region that you will control will be the one that includes only villages that you are legally the majority, and not land that you stole from us.

Of course, and I am sure Copperline will agree with this, we could just forget everything even remotely divisive, and just accept to be 100% equal Cypriots, one person one vote in one united Cyprus. What do you think?

it you guys that are fight tooth and nail to create a GC state with us TCs as just another minority, we will never give up our community rights for your to trample all over us reducing us to foreigners in our own country.

So you give me the examples of Belgium, Switzerland etc and then when I tell you I would accept what they have there you are telling me this?

What "community rights" you are talking about? The right to steal our land and ethnically cleanse us? Because I have never asked from you to give up any of your rights, you are the ones who want to violate ours. On the contrary by talking about Belgium, Switzerland etc, we are talking about you getting things way more than your rights, but apparently nothing is enough for you except from the official Turkification of the north part of our country and the legalization of the violations of our human rights.