Cyprus-Forum.com

[joe]

Yea, the truth hurts doesnt it...we dont need your hate here man.

8/1/98 News on the New

Row over internet plagiarism by Turks

By Roman Rollnick

AMNESTY International and British Telecom PLC have become embroiled in a row over the publication on a BT internet site of a 'report' alleging Greek atrocities against Turks in Cyprus taken word-for-word from a grim Amnesty alert on Colombia and Bosnia.

The 'report' has also been printed and distributed to MPs and other opinion formers in Britain.

In what one leading British copyright lawyer described as a clear case of plagiarism, a group calling itself the Turkish Action Group has taken the painstakingly researched Amnesty material, blanked out the names of the real victims, and substituted them with Turkish names while maintaining the original text.

Amnesty has asked BT to close down the website, but BT has insisted that this cannot be done without a prior investigation. It also declined to provide Amnesty with details of the mysterious Turkish group, which is thought to be London-based.

The row also threw open the wider debate in the UK and Europe on how to police the internet and legislate against offensive material of a pornographic or xenophobic nature.

The lawyer, Nicholas Kounoupias, who is a member of Amnesty International, said: "Amnesty International are having their reputation thrown down the toilet by people using their literature in this way, and it completely destroys their credibility if they remain impotent in this matter. They could and should have the courage to bring a prosecution under section 110 of the Copyright Act. If not, perhaps they should consider assisting others in doing so."

Norma Johnston, Amnesty's communications director, has admitted that "this clear breach of copyright" had already been brought to the attention of BT. But she said Amnesty had been advised by its lawyers that the costly nature of pursuit through the courts "would not be a good use of Al's limited resources."

The published plagiarised material now on the internet was lifted from a four-page circular Amnesty sent out to its members and donors three years ago in which its director, David Bull, wrote:

"Dear Friend, "What do the words 'women and children first' mean to you? "That innocent women and children caught up in some terrible situation beyond their control, must be protected from danger at all costs. That was my understanding, too. But 'women and children first' has taken on a whole new meaning for me since I began reading reports on the subject here at Amnesty International. A meaning that has made me want to shout with rage. And do something. Like make you as angry as I am. Because, together, your anger and mine can do a power of good, as I can show you. It can move mountains - and governments. "If you have a family, you might ask Sonebia and Luis Pinzon what 'women and children first' means in Colombia. "What this innocent family went through is a nightmare. They were asleep when they were woken by solders from the nearby police station who were hammering on the door. When Luis went to see what they wanted, four of them pushed past him and ran upstairs to where Sonebia and the two children were sleeping..."

The plagiarised document uses exactly the same wording, changing only the names and the location. Thus:

"...If you have a family, you might ask the Derya family what 'women and children first' means in Cyprus. What this innocent family went through is a nightmare. They were asleep when Mrs Ayse Derye, a Turkish Cypriot woman, was woken by Greek soldiers and Eoka militia from a nearby police station who were hammering on the door..."

Citing an atrocity against a Muslim woman in the Bosnia, the original Amnesty document said:

"Aged almost 70, she was dragged into the street in her hometown of Kljuc in Bosnia, by a group of Serbian reservists. She was forced to stand with seven other women. One of the men, whom she knew, forced his hand up inside her until she bled. In front of those watching, he then made her lick his fingers..." According to the Turkish Action Group, exactly the same fate befell an "elderly Muslim" Turkish woman in Cyprus.

Like Amnesty, it also carried horror pictures of mutilated bodies. Kyriacos Christodoulou, co-ordinator of the UK-based Lobby for Cyprus, viewed the plagiarism as "consistent with the Turkish policy of spreading unfounded propaganda and disinformation in order to justify their own violation of human rights, as often documented by Amnesty itself, against Kurds and Greeks in the region".

While he wondered how the Turkish group had the resources to spread "such poison", Christodoulou feared it was being done "with such regularity and ferocity that someone will believe these lies".

While BT insisted that it would investigate the matter before any action is decided, a spokesman said that the company in its role as a major telecommunications network, was "working closely" with a special committee of the European Commission in Brussels "to stamp out material deemed harmful and offensive" carried on the internet.

The Independent (UK) 19th February 1998,

Turks plagiarise Amnesty appeal

By Robert Fisk, Middle East Correspondent

A TURKISH CYPRIOT pressure group has shamelessly plagiarised an Amnesty document on human rights abuses in Colombia, Indonesia and Bosnia to advertise alleged rape and murder by Greek Cypriots during the 1974 war.

The "Turkish Action Group", which is believed to have its headquarters in Ankara, substituted Turkish Cypriot names in place of Colombian and Bosnian rape victims in a four-page account of the violent retribution exacted upon Turkish Cypriot women in 1974, the year Turkish troops invaded and divided the island of Cyprus following a coup d'etat by the Greek military regime.

The original Amnesty paper was an emotional open letter last year from David Bull, the director of the human rights organisation, urging readers to join Amnesty and outlining for them - in graphic detail - the brutal rape of Sonebia Pinzon and her daughter Marcela and an unnamed elderly Bosnian Muslim woman who was sexually abused by Serbian militiamen. "What do the words 'women and children first' mean to you?" his letter began. "That innocent women and children caught up in some terrible situation beyond their control, must be protected from danger at all costs? That was my understanding too. But 'women and children first' has taken on a whole new meaning for me since I began reading reports on the subject here at Amnesty International."

The Turkish Action Group's pamphlet begins with these identical words but continues by saying that the (anonymous) author's response "took on a whole new meaning for me since I began reading reports and documents on Cyprus ..." It goes on to substitute Sonebia Pinzon's name with that of the "Derya family".

Here is the Amnesty version: "Don't say 'I can't read this', because there is a purpose to my telling you. If the Pinzon family can get through it, then so can you and I. The [Colombian] soldiers don't waste a second. They have a job to do. It begins with Sonebia. They tear at her clothes ... the stone is cold against her back as they take it in turns to rape her. She whispers to her little boy not to look, but he's frightened, he wants to hold his mummy's hand."

And here is the Turkish version: "Don't say 'I can't read this ... If the Derya family can go through it, so can you and I. Soldiers don't waste a second. They have job [sic] to do. It begins with Mrs Derya. They tear at her clothes ... the stone is cold against her back as they take it in turns to rape her. She whispers to her little boy not to look, but he is frightened, he wants to hold his mother's hand."

In identical words, the Turks describe the rape of one of Mrs Derya's daughters - in the original Amnesty version, the second rape victim is Sonebia's daughter Marcella. Mr Bull's account of the rape of an elderly Bosnian woman by Serbs states that: "She was forced to stand with seven other women. One of the men, whom she knew, forced his hand up inside her until she bled." The Turkish version claims that a Greek Cypriot forced an elderly Turkish Cypriot woman (also unnamed) "to stand with two other women while one of the men forced his hand up inside her until she bled."

To Amnesty's fury, this crude counterfeit had also turned up on a website served by British Telecom, which told Amnesty that it had "no power" to have the material removed. Neil Durkin, an Amnesty spokesman, told The Independent: "We've contacted a QC, and taken advice, but we were advised that this would cost a great deal of money and would grant this [Turkish] organisation publicity that we would not wish to give them."

There are two ironies to this sad story. The first is that during and after the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus, both sides committed human rights abuses, which were fully documented by Amnesty. The second is that the descriptions of rape in the Turkish document are so similar to those in the Amnesty letter that they defy credibility. Like most human rights groups, Amnesty uses the Internet. Clearly, however, the opportunities for misuse are just as great.

[T_C]

Damn! It must of hurt so much that you just HAD to post something even if it was irrelevant....I feel your pain!

What you posted was awfull anyways and may the people who did such things ROT in HELL.....(along with Makarios!)




Look! He's even giving them a salute!!!!

[T_C]

Makarios wanted the Turks out as much as the British...

If Makarios supported EOKAs murders against the British....why would he not support EOKA-B's to remove the TCs?

Ofcourse he would of...it's common sense. It's ludacris to try and suggest Makarios was a decent humanitarian president!!!!

[Expatkiwi]

The 31% figure is what I have read. now, if the other side is claiming 12.3% (and let's just suppose - for argument's sake that the latter figure is more accurate), the fact remains that after the events of December 1963, the Turkish Cypriot people were forced off that land and into enclaves totalling a little over 3%, which means that the other nine percent of (the GC stated figure of) TC land was expropriated (like Larnaca Airport).
Now again I state: the 31% figure is the one I'm more beleiving because of the simple data about the preponderance of TC's that are rural. The preponderance of GC's are urban.
But I also have to say this: given the intercommunal violence of 1963-65, the total freezing-out of any Turkish Cypriot presence politically and culturally, plus the attempted coup of 1974, well... I'll give you the Israeli response to Syrian demands regarding the Golan: "You had it, You abused it, You lost it. End of Story".

[miltiades]

The 31% figure is what I have read. now, if the other side is claiming 12.3% (and let's just suppose - for argument's sake that the latter figure is more accurate), the fact remains that after the events of December 1963, the Turkish Cypriot people were forced off that land and into enclaves totalling a little over 3%, which means that the other nine percent of (the GC stated figure of) TC land was expropriated (like Larnaca Airport).
Now again I state: the 31% figure is the one I'm more beleiving because of the simple data about the preponderance of TC's that are rural. The preponderance of GC's are urban.
But I also have to say this: given the intercommunal violence of 1963-65, the total freezing-out of any Turkish Cypriot presence politically and culturally, plus the attempted coup of 1974, well... I'll give you the Israeli response to Syrian demands regarding the Golan: "You had it, You abused it, You lost it. End of Story".

And who the hell told you that we had IT , we abused it and lost it !!
You are talking from your rear passage since you precisely Zero about Cyprus.
We the Cypriots , lived happily with each other interacted daily and saw each other as a fellow Cypriot. Fanatics come on the scene , people like you basically , and begin to spread malicious lies and hatred , just as you do , and suddenly we become enemies with people that we grew up with.
Your contribution to this forum has been one of destructive and malicious propaganda , your hatred of one section of the Cypriot community is pathetic just as I'm certain your miserable life is in the States. Get a life boy !

[Expatkiwi]

What's the matter, miltiades: truth hurt? You need to be aware that the GC side is not the totally innocent lilly-white part in this conflict. Maybe you're the one who should get a life. My life here in the USA is quite pleasent, thank you...

[joe]

Makarios wanted the Turks out as much as the British...

If Makarios supported EOKAs murders against the British....why would he not support EOKA-B's to remove the TCs?

Ofcourse he would of...it's common sense. It's ludacris to try and suggest Makarios was a decent humanitarian president!!!!

I feel like i must give you a history listen but it would take too much of my time. First, EOKA-B attempted to overthrow Makarios. Look it up, do some google search or something. Here take a look at what wikipedia said on EOKA-B
______________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarios_III

In 1967, a military junta seized power in Athens, and the relationship between the regime and Makarios was tense. Makarios held that the regime undermined his authority by supporting EOKA-B, a paramilitary organisation committed to enosis.

In the summer of 1971, tension built up between the two Cypriot communities, and incidents became more numerous. Sometime in the late summer or early autumn, Grivas (who had attacked Makarios as a traitor in an Athens newspaper) returned secretly to the island and began to rebuild his guerrilla organisation, which became known as the National Organization of Cypriot Fighters (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston B -- EOKA-B).
_________________________________

get your facts straight man, before you spew hatred like Eric.

[T_C]

Joe I couldn't care less.

They only clashed because as far as they were concerned Makarios wasn't doing enough for Enosis and NOT because they differed in opinions.



....the only difference was that Makarios was clever and was doing everything on the "downlow". You're crazy if you really think Makarios didn't have anything to do with the Cyprob!

Anyways, you really will not be able to convince me that Makarios was a good man because his manipulation is WELL DOCUMENTED. What Makarios said and did were two different things...let's just agree to disagree because I can't be bothered to go down this road again...

[Piratis]

Garagoz, of course Makarios, just like most other Cypriots supported EOKA and the liberation struggle against the colonialists.

Who should feel ashamed are the TCs, who sided with the colonialists to murder Cypriots and keep by force Cyprus under the British rule, against the will of the great majority of the Cypriot people.

Since when is fighting against the colonialists for the liberation of your island, "terrorism"? This is how the colonialists used to call the fighters that fought against them all around the world, and you apparently continue to side with them against Cyprus.

[T_C]

Since when is it OK for a man of God to endorse murder Piratis?

Makarios was a BISHOP (a supposed man of God) who later became PRESIDENT and he was supporting a terrorist orginisation that was MURDERING innocent people.