Cyprus-Forum.com

[Boumboulina]

Had the Ottomans not come in 1571 there would've been thousands more Sotos' on the island...

Oooohhh he look like such nice cute babies. I want to hug him to my bosom

I look just like them... can I be hugged on your bosom too?

Plenty room on my bosom to hug you too

Just to check if we all fit... how big bosom?

Boumboulina ample. Always room for one more

[Get Real!]

Had the Ottomans not come in 1571 there would've been thousands more Sotos' on the island...

Oooohhh he look like such nice cute babies. I want to hug him to my bosom

I look just like them... can I be hugged on your bosom too?

Plenty room on my bosom to hug you too

Just to check if we all fit... how big bosom?

Boumboulina ample. Always room for one more

Ever since we started talking GR also ample...

[Nikitas]

Murataga and Zan,

I know that Rauf Dnetash is a lawyer, and I do know of his family background. By peasant I did not mean that he tilled the soil! HE was born in a village like Makarios was. Dr Kutcuk was an academic and son of a rich landowning family, a member of the upper classes of Cyprus. Being a big landowner in the 40s and 50s in Cyprus was entirely different to being a civil servant, even a highly paid one. Clarified that I hope.

Now as to the Makarios thing, it is not what they taught me in school. It is what I learned from experience and contact with events and people involved in events. There is nothing in what I posted that tries to absolve Makarios of his mistakes nor any indication that I sympathized then, or now, with his handling of Cyprus at any time. I said clearly that as a priest he did no belong in politics.

I understand that you do not have access to Greek press, history articles and the view of the "man on the street". You would be surprised to hear the mainland Greek's opinion of Makarios, which is probably a little worse than yours. Most( Right wing) Greeks consider him a traitor because he was against Enosis (their words not mine) while the leftists consider him an anomaly of history because he was a priest in politics.

My view is that he undervalued status of the Republic. He came on as the man who would promote Enosis, then figured out it was not possible. He opted for independence and the situation he had created backfired on him.

I realise the Turkish Cypriots see him as the man who ordered the attacks on them. Or at the very least who did not stop them. My question is if he had the power by then to order anyone to do anything. I do know that one mentally unabalanced mainland officer proposed an all out attack and mass slaughter of Turkish Cypriots and Makarios was horrified and had him recalled. So on that evidence I would say he did not condone violence against civilians. But on the other hand he did let the division and the enclaves go on till 1974 and that in turn led to the establishment of TMT power, which brings us back to his ambivalent attitude about Cyprus as a nation state. A mistake from which all the problems follow. None of this is taught in Greek schools by the way.

[Eric dayi]

Had the Ottomans not come in 1571 there would've been thousands more Sotos' on the island...

Oooohhh he look like such nice cute babies. I want to hug him to my bosom

I look just like them... can I be hugged on your bosom too?

Plenty room on my bosom to hug you too

Just to check if we all fit... how big bosom?

Boumboulina ample. Always room for one more

Ever since we started talking GR also ample...

And this is a man who has audacity to complain to others to stay on topic in the thread/s he starts hi-jacking jet another thread.

May I remind you that this thread is about the lies and propaganda of the GCs and not about "bosoms".

[boomerang]

ricco talk to me, i am gonna cry

[Boumboulina]

Had the Ottomans not come in 1571 there would've been thousands more Sotos' on the island...

Oooohhh he look like such nice cute babies. I want to hug him to my bosom

I look just like them... can I be hugged on your bosom too?

Plenty room on my bosom to hug you too

Just to check if we all fit... how big bosom?

Boumboulina ample. Always room for one more

Ever since we started talking GR also ample...

And this is a man who has audacity to complain to others to stay on topic in the thread/s he starts hi-jacking jet another thread.

May I remind you that this thread is about the lies and propaganda of the GCs and not about "bosoms".

Grouch! No room for you baddie Turk.
DT say you not breast-fed. You afraid of bosom?

[Eric dayi]

Murataga and Zan,

I know that Rauf Dnetash is a lawyer, and I do know of his family background. By peasant I did not mean that he tilled the soil! HE was born in a village like Makarios was. Dr Kutcuk was an academic and son of a rich landowning family, a member of the upper classes of Cyprus. Being a big landowner in the 40s and 50s in Cyprus was entirely different to being a civil servant, even a highly paid one. Clarified that I hope.

Now as to the Makarios thing, it is not what they taught me in school. It is what I learned from experience and contact with events and people involved in events. There is nothing in what I posted that tries to absolve Makarios of his mistakes nor any indication that I sympathized then, or now, with his handling of Cyprus at any time. I said clearly that as a priest he did no belong in politics.

I understand that you do not have access to Greek press, history articles and the view of the "man on the street". You would be surprised to hear the mainland Greek's opinion of Makarios, which is probably a little worse than yours. Most( Right wing) Greeks consider him a traitor because he was against Enosis (their words not mine) while the leftists consider him an anomaly of history because he was a priest in politics.

My view is that he undervalued status of the Republic. He came on as the man who would promote Enosis, then figured out it was not possible. He opted for independence and the situation he had created backfired on him.

I realise the Turkish Cypriots see him as the man who ordered the attacks on them. Or at the very least who did not stop them. My question is if he had the power by then to order anyone to do anything. I do know that one mentally unabalanced mainland officer proposed an all out attack and mass slaughter of Turkish Cypriots and Makarios was horrified and had him recalled. So on that evidence I would say he did not condone violence against civilians. But on the other hand he did let the division and the enclaves go on till 1974 and that in turn led to the establishment of TMT power, which brings us back to his ambivalent attitude about Cyprus as a nation state. A mistake from which all the problems follow. None of this is taught in Greek schools by the way.

Makarios came to power in the first place becuase he wanted ENOSIS the same as Greece and 96% of the GCs did. He supported Grivas and the EOKA and gave his blessings for the murders. He is as responsible for many deaths as is Grivas, Samsun and the EOKA from 1958 to when he changed his mind.

The reasons why he changed his mind could be for different things such as:

1) When he became a President of a newly formed republic he didn't want to give his seat away and become just another "Priest". He enjoyed his newly found fame and wanted to enjoy it longer.

2) He fought back when Greece and EOKA tried to cut short his "Presidency".

3) His God told him that enough blood was spilled and scared the daylights out of him if he didn't stop the killing.

4) He really thought that to many innocent GCs lost their lives and did not want to be responsible for any more GC deaths.

I really do not believe that he felt sorry for any TC casualties and wanted to stop the murdering of TCs otherwise he would have suggested that we stop the killing and return to the 1960 constitution together as was agreed but instead he carried on with his wish to change the constitution and to make us second class citizens.

Makarios was the worst thing that happened to Cyprus and he is responsible for many murders. He was the EOKA leader and now you GCs have another EOKA terrorist as your "President" and we are supposed to forget all that and embrace you GCs as if nothing has happened although it is evident that the majority of GCs still want ENOSIS and hate anything Turkish with a vengeance so much so that they are trying to force me to forget even my Turkishness.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[denizaksulu]

Had the Ottomans not come in 1571 there would've been thousands more Sotos' on the island...

Oh please. One Sodoff is more than enough

[Nikitas]

Eric, I was stating my experiences and perceptions from a long time ago. I was not trying to get you to do or believe anything. But we do agree on one thing, he missed his chance between 1967 and 1974 to put things on a right footing.

You are still stuck on Enosis so much so that you are beginning to sound like a retired Greek army colonel. You got to to do something about that. Enosis is as dead as the dodo for present day Greeks, they got rid of the Cyprus problem and they are not going to pick it up again.

[Eric dayi]

Eric, I was stating my experiences and perceptions from a long time ago. I was not trying to get you to do or believe anything. But we do agree on one thing, he missed his chance between 1967 and 1974 to put things on a right footing.

You are still stuck on Enosis so much so that you are beginning to sound like a retired Greek army colonel. You got to to do something about that. Enosis is as dead as the dodo for present day Greeks, they got rid of the Cyprus problem and they are not going to pick it up again.

Sorry but that is very hard to believe when the GCs are trying to force us TCs to forget our Turkishness and insist that we join a Greek Cypriot state ruled solely by GCs and us TCs as second class Muslim Greeks/Cypriots, until then the GCs can lie as much as they want about not wanting ENOSIS any more.