Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

It is amazing how some people have no problem with lying to make a point: Denktash`s father was a prominent judge (hakim Raif Bey) not a peasant and Denktash himself held a law degree from the UK.

I think you are being a little harsh with Nikitas here Murataga. I just think it is a great shame what is coming out of this persons mouth and find it a great teaching to me and an understanding of what is going on all over the Hellenic world. We see things said that have no relevance as to what we, as TCs know and can only be amazed at how they can keep such truths from their people and teach only lies. The world is so open and still they only hear what the mother tongue tells them and I believe that Nikitas actually believes it all. No question no doubt. Amazing....Truly amazing....

Well said zan. In the famous words of René Descartes from his book "Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason in the Search for Truth in the Sciences" dating 1637 :

If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things.

[Eric dayi]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

Why did he refuse to renounce EOKA??? AND ENOSIS

Because they would kill him and Sampson or someone of his like would take over. Would you prefer that?

So he was afraid for his life and didn't feel safe from being killed by the murdering scum EOKA A but you and your "friends" here accuse us TCs for not agreeing to help you with your ENOSIS dreams because we were also afraid and knew what the murdering terrorist scum EOKA would do to us, right?

Btw he diplomatically denounced it in 1968 when he said "Enosis was our wish, but our fight from now on is for what is FEASIBLE". That's why all assisination attempts against him started, leading up to the coup.

And we are supposed to believe that Makarios all of a sudden changed his mind and was no longer afraid that he would be murdered by the murdering terrorist scum EOKA and that this charade of changing his mind
and the "attempts" on his life had nothing to do with the Akritas plan, right?

Yeah, right.

BTW, had we had a President who really and truthfully supported the independence of Cyprus and had the best interest of all communities without prejudice and not ENOSIS like the murdering "Priest" Makarios, who is to say that we would not be living together in harmony as Greek and Turkish Cypriots?

BUT as you GCs pointed out time and time again, 96% of GCs wanted ENOSIS so what different would have made anyway if some other GC were to be elected as the President? NONE whatsoever because we would still be in the same sh1te as we are now.

[zan]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

It is amazing how some people have no problem with lying to make a point: Denktash`s father was a prominent judge (hakim Raif Bey) not a peasant and Denktash himself held a law degree from the UK.

I think you are being a little harsh with Nikitas here Murataga. I just think it is a great shame what is coming out of this persons mouth and find it a great teaching to me and an understanding of what is going on all over the Hellenic world. We see things said that have no relevance as to what we, as TCs know and can only be amazed at how they can keep such truths from their people and teach only lies. The world is so open and still they only hear what the mother tongue tells them and I believe that Nikitas actually believes it all. No question no doubt. Amazing....Truly amazing....

Well said zan. In the famous words of René Descartes from his book "Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason in the Search for Truth in the Sciences" dating 1637 :

If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things.

They seem to be held down by their feet in turbulent water and only allowed to breath when the Hellenic state says so. The sweet air is what they concentrate on and not the slow drowning....

[Pyrpolizer]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

Why did he refuse to renounce EOKA??? AND ENOSIS

Because they would kill him and Sampson or someone of his like would take over. Would you prefer that?

So he was afraid for his life and didn't feel safe from being killed by the murdering scum EOKA A but you and your "friends" here accuse us TCs for not agreeing to help you with your ENOSIS dreams because we were also afraid and knew what the murdering terrorist scum EOKA would do to us, right?

Btw he diplomatically denounced it in 1968 when he said "Enosis was our wish, but our fight from now on is for what is FEASIBLE". That's why all assisination attempts against him started, leading up to the coup.

And we are supposed to believe that Makarios all of a sudden changed his mind and was no longer afraid that he would be murdered by the murdering terrorist scum EOKA and that this charade of changing his mind
and the "attempts" on his life had nothing to do with the Akritas plan, right?

Yeah, right.

BTW, had we had a President who really and truthfully supported the independence of Cyprus and had the best interest of all communities without prejudice and not ENOSIS like the murdering "Priest" Makarios, who is to say that we would not be living together in harmony as Greek and Turkish Cypriots?

BUT as you GCs pointed out time and time again, 96% of GCs wanted ENOSIS so what different would have made anyway if some other GC were to be elected as the President? NONE whatsoever because we would still be in the same sh1te as we are now.

Not worth replying too much bullshit inside....

[DT.]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

It is amazing how some people have no problem with lying to make a point: Denktash`s father was a prominent judge (hakim Raif Bey) not a peasant and Denktash himself held a law degree from the UK.

I think you are being a little harsh with Nikitas here Murataga. I just think it is a great shame what is coming out of this persons mouth and find it a great teaching to me and an understanding of what is going on all over the Hellenic world. We see things said that have no relevance as to what we, as TCs know and can only be amazed at how they can keep such truths from their people and teach only lies. The world is so open and still they only hear what the mother tongue tells them and I believe that Nikitas actually believes it all. No question no doubt. Amazing....Truly amazing....

Zan this is truly amazing....THIS IS EXACTLY how i feel about the TC's and their understanding of ENosis and EOka B and everything else that has happened to the GC's and the TC's understanding of it. You've managed to word it perfectly and I truly hope you read back your words and try and reciprocate them cause they speak the truth.

[Sotos]

Imagine how Cyprus would be today if the barbarian Turks never invaded us! These parasites are trying to destroy Cyprus like they destroyed Asia Minor and they made it a shit hole full of uneducated Mongoloits

[Viewpoint]

Imagine how Cyprus would be today if the barbarian Turks never invaded us! These parasites are trying to destroy Cyprus like they destroyed Asia Minor and they made it a shit hole full of uneducated Mongoloits

There would be no Tcs and plenty more mass graves, but this would have been a source of pride for Gcs.

[Sotos]

Mass graves of what? Turks came to Cyprus and started to kill us. If the Turks didn't come there would be no Turks in Cyprus no deaths and no problems. It all happened because the barbarian Turks wanted to take our island.

[zan]

Mass graves of what? Turks came to Cyprus and started to kill us. If the Turks didn't come there would be no Turks in Cyprus no deaths and no problems. It all happened because the barbarian Turks wanted to take our island.

Unlike the murderous Greeks that ate the first born of every Cypriot...

[Viewpoint]

Mass graves of what? Turks came to Cyprus and started to kill us. If the Turks didn't come there would be no Turks in Cyprus no deaths and no problems. It all happened because the barbarian Turks wanted to take our island.

Thank god the did as we would have been annihalated and today Cyprus woudl be called Greece and we woudl be long forgotten.