Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

Why did he refuse to renounce EOKA??? AND ENOSIS

Because they would kill him and Sampson or someone of his like would take over. Would you prefer that?

I expected that Pyro but was hoping for something better. So....Let me get this straight.....Makarios flexes muscle to the Brits and Turkey and the US, at times, and then, supposedly, Greece and he is then frightened off by the "few", in GC terms of EOKA men........Sorry...I think I am missing something................................................................................Or was it the Russians...and the Church....................or Sampson and Grivas.......or

[Pyrpolizer]

I think someone already mentioned the three daughters of the rich merchant trader that he helped keep off the streets when their father lost all his money. The father would not accept the charity apparently and so the saint would leave money in the girls stockings that were on the washing line. That is where the traditional Stocking comes from on the fire places of homes at Christmas...

I described the Christian Greek tradition that dates back from the few yeards AD. You are talking for the western tradition that dates back in the middle ages...
Obviously there is a similarity.

[zan]

I think someone already mentioned the three daughters of the rich merchant trader that he helped keep off the streets when their father lost all his money. The father would not accept the charity apparently and so the saint would leave money in the girls stockings that were on the washing line. That is where the traditional Stocking comes from on the fire places of homes at Christmas...

I described the Christian Greek tradition that dates back from the few yeards AD. You are talking for the western tradition that dates back in the middle ages...
Obviously there is a similarity.

To be honest I have no idea what era I am talking about. IT was just on a program I saw about the Bible. It put to rest a lot of myths for me and made perfect sense.

[Pyrpolizer]

I expected that Pyro but was hoping for something better. So....Let me get this straight.....Makarios flexes muscle to the Brits and Turkey and the US, at times, and then, supposedly, Greece and he is then frightened off by the "few", in GC terms of EOKA men........Sorry...I think I am missing

Yes you are missing the when exactly he has flexed muscles and what he succeeded. After you do that we may continue.

[zan]

I expected that Pyro but was hoping for something better. So....Let me get this straight.....Makarios flexes muscle to the Brits and Turkey and the US, at times, and then, supposedly, Greece and he is then frightened off by the "few", in GC terms of EOKA men........Sorry...I think I am missing

Yes you are missing the when exactly he has flexed muscles and what he succeeded. After you do that we may continue.

As I said.....He got independance from the Great British Empire but could not contain a "Small" group of EOKA. THe reason being that he supported them I think...You accept that and then we can move on......

[Nikitas]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

[miltiades]

I expected that Pyro but was hoping for something better. So....Let me get this straight.....Makarios flexes muscle to the Brits and Turkey and the US, at times, and then, supposedly, Greece and he is then frightened off by the "few", in GC terms of EOKA men........Sorry...I think I am missing

Yes you are missing the when exactly he has flexed muscles and what he succeeded. After you do that we may continue.

As I said.....He got independance from the Great British Empire but could not contain a "Small" group of EOKA. THe reason being that he supported them I think...You accept that and then we can move on......

You are off truck Zan , Makarios perceived EOKA B as the enemy within , they , with Greece's blessing were a law unto themselves.

[zan]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

Sorry Nikitas but it is not me that is stuck in some hole but you. The man had the backing of Greece and the Orthodox Church and was primed and readied by them to do what ever it took to achieve ENOSIS and slowly destroy Turkish interest in Cyprus. He was not a lonely little man sitting twiddling his thumbs wondering what to do next. The plans were long term and determined. I am sorry but I seem to occupy the real world in which not everything is black and white to the likes of me and you...I think between the lines and add effect to cause. We had the UK, Greece and Turkey with Russia in the background along with the US and there you want to paint the picture of a frail monk that got caught up in the cross fire.......Give me a break...


Can you see how it then goes with you thinking that Denktas and Dr. Kucuk were the devil incarnate!!! I really think you should be doing some self analysis before attempting to do me...

[Murataga]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

It is amazing how some people have no problem with lying to make a point: Denktash`s father was a prominent judge (hakim Raif Bey) not a peasant and Denktash himself held a law degree from the UK.

[zan]

Ah Zan, you are stuck in the Turkish Cypriot perspective on this thing. Try and see things from a differennt angle for a change.

Makarios got trapped, not entirely innocently, in a situation where his army was trained and officered by a hostile state, Greece. The army armed and trained the EOKA B and both together turned against Makarios. It was not just a few guys with old guns. In the summer of 1973 I recall dozens of bombs going off in Nicosia, under people's cars., part of the anti Makarios anti independence campaign by EOKA B which had gone on for a couple of years before the coup in 1974. By the time Makarios inderstood that he had fostered an army not loyal to Cyprus it was too late, we were in the shitpile.

I am not trying to find excuses for Makarios. Still think that priests should not be in politics. But since he was we have to analyse what he did and did not do objectively. It is interesting to note that Makarios did not get along with Dr Kutchuk, an educated secular personality from an upper class background, but he did get along with Rauf Dentkash who was peasant boy just like Makarios. By get along I do not mean they went to the pub together, but that they could sit down and talk. These are interesting little details about Cyprus we often forget in our ethnic monodimensional argument in this forum.

It is amazing how some people have no problem with lying to make a point: Denktash`s father was a prominent judge (hakim Raif Bey) not a peasant and Denktash himself held a law degree from the UK.

I think you are being a little harsh with Nikitas here Murataga. I just think it is a great shame what is coming out of this persons mouth and find it a great teaching to me and an understanding of what is going on all over the Hellenic world. We see things said that have no relevance as to what we, as TCs know and can only be amazed at how they can keep such truths from their people and teach only lies. The world is so open and still they only hear what the mother tongue tells them and I believe that Nikitas actually believes it all. No question no doubt. Amazing....Truly amazing....