Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Why are we talking about a man who has been dead for 30 years or so.??

I know, because we talked about Atatürk not too long ago with accusations about his life.

So, who will the "shit stirrers" resurrect soon to become the next piñata to beat on, I wonder.??

'Saint' Nicos Sampson, perhaps

You are almost correct Deniz.

I think it's time to beat up on Santa Claus.

Why, is it because he is from Turkey?

Is he really.??

Saint Nicholas born in Asia Minor, so I' ve heard.

The Greek santa Claus is called "Ayios Vasilis" and he is indeed from Turkey Ceasaria

Thanks Pyro.
A man of a few names was old sa ta Claus. As kids we used to call him Ayvasil as well. I suppose from a mixed village you cant expect anything else.. I believe its derived from Basili=King would it have been a proper name or a nick name? Has Nicholas anything to do with Claus, it looks plausible. Maybe its the Slavic version. Any opinions.
In Czech, you have Micklaus/ Nichlaus/Nicholas. I suppose many cultures have variants in the name. Going off a tangent again. SORRY

[Pyrpolizer]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

[Nikitas]

Pyro,

I read your post carefully. I agree with you, Makarios was a typical priest. I do not know whether it was his religious fatalism that made him incapable of understanding the need to take the new state seriously and come down hard on the paramilitaries, or whether he considered them necessary. The net result is that the young Republic of Cyprus as a result of his choices did not behave like a nation state. It is indicative that once the National Guard was set up it retained mainland Greek officers who had sworn allegiance to another state.

Two or three days ago Politis newspaper carried an article about the class origins of the EOKA movement- mostly peasant boys who as a result of their victory over the British got the choices positions in the government and civil service. They pushed out the middle classes, the urban working class and the upper classes. In effect the young Republic did not use the most useful talents in Cypriot society.

It is no wonder that with this approach of not fully committing to either Enosis or Independence, or at least not committing to Independence till it was too late that we ended up in a shitpile.

[zan]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

Why did he refuse to renounce EOKA??? AND ENOSIS

[Nikitas]

Zan,

YOu are stuck on the formalities. The man should never have been in politics, he was a priest. Priests do not belong in politics. And saying this I am not classing myself as antiMakarios. It is plain common sense, especially in a country like the young Republic of Cyprus that is made up of two communities with different religions.

[zan]

Zan,

YOu are stuck on the formalities. The man should never have been in politics, he was a priest. Priests do not belong in politics. And saying this I am not classing myself as antiMakarios. It is plain common sense, especially in a country like the young Republic of Cyprus that is made up of two communities with different religions.

That only makes you a Makarios excusist Nikitas. The point is that it happened and he happened and what he did to us as Turkish Cypriots happened and what we are going through today is a result of not one person in authority, in the "RoC" coming forward and putting the record straight. The reasons for this I am sure we will disagree on and I think you know that too.

[Pyrpolizer]

Why are we talking about a man who has been dead for 30 years or so.??

I know, because we talked about Atatürk not too long ago with accusations about his life.

So, who will the "shit stirrers" resurrect soon to become the next piñata to beat on, I wonder.??

'Saint' Nicos Sampson, perhaps

You are almost correct Deniz.

I think it's time to beat up on Santa Claus.

Why, is it because he is from Turkey?

Is he really.??

Saint Nicholas born in Asia Minor, so I' ve heard.

The Greek santa Claus is called "Ayios Vasilis" and he is indeed from Turkey Ceasaria

Thanks Pyro.
A man of a few names was old sa ta Claus. As kids we used to call him Ayvasil as well. I suppose from a mixed village you cant expect anything else.. I believe its derived from Basili=King would it have been a proper name or a nick name? Has Nicholas anything to do with Claus, it looks plausible. Maybe its the Slavic version. Any opinions.
In Czech, you have Micklaus/ Nichlaus/Nicholas. I suppose many cultures have variants in the name. Going off a tangent again. SORRY

Deniz from Aksu, better spell the Greek B as V because that's how it spells. You are right Vasil-is the root for King/queen but is also a proper name.
The western Santa Claus figure of the old man in red was actually invented by Coca Cola!!!
The greek one is Ayios Vasilios and he also brings presents at new years eve.

OK here's what tradition says:

When Vasilios was Bishop at Ceasaria (its in Todays turkey somewhere in Kappadokia) there was a year of great famine when the villagers had nothing to pay to Elginios the local district administrator. (It seems Ceasaria was under Rome then). Elginios however asked for their jewlery, wedding rings etc otherwise he threatened to destroy the town. So the villagers had no option than gather their precious items and give them to him. As soon as he touched them though, fire fell from the sky and burned his hand.
Elginios remorsed for his greed, understood it was God's punishment, so he ordered to bring flour to the hungry people and return them their gold.
However a new problem arose-how to eturn the precious items to the owners. There was no list or anything.
Vasilios had an idea: He used the flour to make little pies and in each pie they stuffed some gold, and gave each of his people one.
The people both satisfied their huger but also nicely surprised for finding gold inside.

Ever since the Greeks celebrate new years eve and their "Ayios Vasilios" making vasillo-pitta (the Vasili-Cake) in which they stuff a coin, (a chifte shilling in your years my friend), then cut it in pieces and the one in the family who finds the chifte was the lucky person of the new year!!!

Bishop Vasilios in those early Christian years was a real ascetic person (nothing to do with todays Bishops) known for his deep faith, help people, and was called saint.

[zan]

I think someone already mentioned the three daughters of the rich merchant trader that he helped keep off the streets when their father lost all his money. The father would not accept the charity apparently and so the saint would leave money in the girls stockings that were on the washing line. That is where the traditional Stocking comes from on the fire places of homes at Christmas...

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro,

I read your post carefully. I agree with you, Makarios was a typical priest. I do not know whether it was his religious fatalism that made him incapable of understanding the need to take the new state seriously and come down hard on the paramilitaries, or whether he considered them necessary. The net result is that the young Republic of Cyprus as a result of his choices did not behave like a nation state. It is indicative that once the National Guard was set up it retained mainland Greek officers who had sworn allegiance to another state.

Two or three days ago Politis newspaper carried an article about the class origins of the EOKA movement- mostly peasant boys who as a result of their victory over the British got the choices positions in the government and civil service. They pushed out the middle classes, the urban working class and the upper classes. In effect the young Republic did not use the most useful talents in Cypriot society.

It is no wonder that with this approach of not fully committing to either Enosis or Independence, or at least not committing to Independence till it was too late that we ended up in a shitpile.

Nikitas,

That would make a great discussion/sort of exchange of information that i like but I don't think the Tcs in here would follow. What you said is true to a large extend.

In short I believe the situation was to far out of hand from the very begining of the Republic. It was not only the messy constitution and the fighting over Enosis/taksim.

[Pyrpolizer]

Makarios had a mistress and everybody knows it. The headmaster of the kykkos school for girls (there where Kikapu was kept captive). Her name kokkinou.

I definetely reject the argument Makarios was a murderer or endosing murder etc. (not that I liked him anyway)
Makarios was a TYPICAL priest, in that he would NEVER take the initiative and do anything. All priests believe whatever it's God's will this will happen. Both Makarios and Kutchuk knew very well what the paramilitary groups in each side they were doing. But nobody was taking any action to stop it.

I asked before what would happen to the TCs if someone else was the President instead of Makarios. No one dared reply. Not even Eric who started this topic. Well guys here are some of the options:Yiorkatzis, Papadopoulos, Sampson, or even Klerides. Read carefully the plots the Junta people had ready and guaranteed to exexcute overnight against the TCs.... If ANYONE denies the fact those people had the power and the will not only to blow up all the enclaves overnight but perhaps eradicate all the TCs as well then he doesn't know the reality of those years.

I personally blame Makarios for inaction. What he should have done is first destroy the Gc paramilitaries. Then the Tc ones, then dismantle the enclaves, have the TCs return under conditions of safety back to their villages guarded by mixed police (GC+TC), and re-establish all government jobs for the TCs.

Why did he refuse to renounce EOKA??? AND ENOSIS

Because they would kill him and Sampson or someone of his like would take over. Would you prefer that?

Btw he diplomatically denounced it in 1968 when he said "Enosis was our wish, but our fight from now on is for what is FEASIBLE". That's why all assisination attempts against him started, leading up to the coup.