Observer,
All the cases you mention are non EU members. In the event of partition becoming official the EU will be faced with the problem of accepting the confiscation of property of its own citizens- namely Greek Cypriots who own land in the north. It will also be accepting the exclusion of these people from their property based on their ethnic origin. It will in effect be accepting a reversal of its legal order and principles in the proposed state.
THis is the problem in Kosovo where the pressure is on the Kosovar ALbanians to guarantee the rights of residence of all communities and to accept international observers to ensure that this happens.
You forget that in the cases you mentioned there is no foreign occupation by an outside power. Would Kosovo be the same situation if Albania had been occupying a third of the province?
Partiton on it's way.
by humanist » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:35 am
Nikitas
Nikitas, does that mean that if the EU is not prepared to compromise its principles, laws and regulations on human rihts as mentioned above in relation to property, political rights based on ethnic origin. The trnc as an independent state with a pending application for EU membership will have to restore these rights? Therefore in essence with 200,000 refugees being given the right of return and political rights that would mean that they will be able to organise and join existing political parties in that State? Therefore out number TC's and naturally will become a GC dominated society with naturally the possibility of GC running the parliament.
Therefore, the other option for an independent trnc state it would have to withdraw its application or fullfil the requirements of human rights for all its citizens.
All the cases you mention are non EU members. In the event of partition becoming official the EU will be faced with the problem of accepting the confiscation of property of its own citizens- namely Greek Cypriots who own land in the north. It will also be accepting the exclusion of these people from their property based on their ethnic origin. It will in effect be accepting a reversal of its legal order and principles in the proposed state.
THis is the problem in Kosovo where the pressure is on the Kosovar ALbanians to guarantee the rights of residence of all communities and to accept international observers to ensure that this happens.
You forget that in the cases you mentioned there is no foreign occupation by an outside power. Would Kosovo be the same situation if Albania had been occupying a third of the province?
Nikitas, does that mean that if the EU is not prepared to compromise its principles, laws and regulations on human rihts as mentioned above in relation to property, political rights based on ethnic origin. The trnc as an independent state with a pending application for EU membership will have to restore these rights? Therefore in essence with 200,000 refugees being given the right of return and political rights that would mean that they will be able to organise and join existing political parties in that State? Therefore out number TC's and naturally will become a GC dominated society with naturally the possibility of GC running the parliament.
Therefore, the other option for an independent trnc state it would have to withdraw its application or fullfil the requirements of human rights for all its citizens.
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by Nikitas » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:53 am
Humanist
THis is the major problem that the EU will face with a possible two states development and accession of the TRNC to the EU, and for that reason does not want to get into such a quagmire. If you notice they always point to a solution under UN auspices, not EU, they do not want the problem!
In a unified EU, as it is now, there is freedom of movement, establishment, etc. It would be ironic to say that a German from Berlin can come live in the TRNC but not a Cypriot who was born there.
At the moment any EU cisizen can stand for election to the European Parliament anywhere in the EU. It is also mandated that all civils service positions are open to all EU citizens as long as they are competent technically and language wise in the relevant national language. The EU is proceeding with the participation of all nationals in local elections and eventually in national elections. So it is conceivable that at some point, with two independent nations members of the EU, all citizens would be eligible for all posts and civil service positions in both nations, as would be all EU nationals.
The irony is evident, it will have taken about a century of civil war, invasion, partition to unite under the roof of the EU. One example to illustrate the point- Greeks regarded Bulgarians as historic enemies because of Macedonia. Now there prhaps a hundred thousand Bulgarians in Greece, working legally, enrolled in national insurance etc, and their children, educated in Greek schools will be eligible for jobs in the civil serivice since Bulgaria joined the EU recently. And Greek companis are major employers in Bulgaria.
As for exceptions on the human rights issue, there can be small and temporary exceptions, such as those claimed by the Baltic states regarding Russian residents. But they are always subject to challenges at the European court level and their effect is strictly and narroly interpreted.
THis is the major problem that the EU will face with a possible two states development and accession of the TRNC to the EU, and for that reason does not want to get into such a quagmire. If you notice they always point to a solution under UN auspices, not EU, they do not want the problem!
In a unified EU, as it is now, there is freedom of movement, establishment, etc. It would be ironic to say that a German from Berlin can come live in the TRNC but not a Cypriot who was born there.
At the moment any EU cisizen can stand for election to the European Parliament anywhere in the EU. It is also mandated that all civils service positions are open to all EU citizens as long as they are competent technically and language wise in the relevant national language. The EU is proceeding with the participation of all nationals in local elections and eventually in national elections. So it is conceivable that at some point, with two independent nations members of the EU, all citizens would be eligible for all posts and civil service positions in both nations, as would be all EU nationals.
The irony is evident, it will have taken about a century of civil war, invasion, partition to unite under the roof of the EU. One example to illustrate the point- Greeks regarded Bulgarians as historic enemies because of Macedonia. Now there prhaps a hundred thousand Bulgarians in Greece, working legally, enrolled in national insurance etc, and their children, educated in Greek schools will be eligible for jobs in the civil serivice since Bulgaria joined the EU recently. And Greek companis are major employers in Bulgaria.
As for exceptions on the human rights issue, there can be small and temporary exceptions, such as those claimed by the Baltic states regarding Russian residents. But they are always subject to challenges at the European court level and their effect is strictly and narroly interpreted.
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by BirKibrisli » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:10 pm
"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History"''said some wiseman whose name escapes me at the moment...
Just look back over the past 3000 years of Cypriot history...And tell me which occupying power got to rule forever???Cypriot people are great survivors,and they will survive their most recent occupiers as well...That is as sure as night follows day...It is only a matter of time...Cyprus will again belong to her people,the Cypriots...
Just look back over the past 3000 years of Cypriot history...And tell me which occupying power got to rule forever???Cypriot people are great survivors,and they will survive their most recent occupiers as well...That is as sure as night follows day...It is only a matter of time...Cyprus will again belong to her people,the Cypriots...
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by Nikitas » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:49 pm
Bir
You have a way of getting to the point dierctly and simply. You are right, and in the EU that gives a shield to small countries so they can survive without mid sized patrons, we can do it.
You have a way of getting to the point dierctly and simply. You are right, and in the EU that gives a shield to small countries so they can survive without mid sized patrons, we can do it.
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Independent "trnc" and same of the old garbage. The moment partition becomes legal, northern Cyprus will be annexed to Turkey and become a turkish province.
by Get Real! » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:15 pm
Birkibrisli wrote:"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History"''said some wiseman whose name escapes me at the moment...
Just look back over the past 3000 years of Cypriot history...And tell me which occupying power got to rule forever???Cypriot people are great survivors,and they will survive their most recent occupiers as well...That is as sure as night follows day...It is only a matter of time...Cyprus will again belong to her people,the Cypriots...
Eisai Tsiakkos!
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Get Real! - Forum Addict
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by BirKibrisli » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:27 pm
Get Real! wrote:Birkibrisli wrote:"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History"''said some wiseman whose name escapes me at the moment...
Just look back over the past 3000 years of Cypriot history...And tell me which occupying power got to rule forever???Cypriot people are great survivors,and they will survive their most recent occupiers as well...That is as sure as night follows day...It is only a matter of time...Cyprus will again belong to her people,the Cypriots...
Eisai Tsiakkos!
Who or what is Tsiakkos?????
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
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by RichardB » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:30 pm
Birkibrisli wrote:Get Real! wrote:Birkibrisli wrote:"What we learn from History is that we do not learn from History"''said some wiseman whose name escapes me at the moment...
Just look back over the past 3000 years of Cypriot history...And tell me which occupying power got to rule forever???Cypriot people are great survivors,and they will survive their most recent occupiers as well...That is as sure as night follows day...It is only a matter of time...Cyprus will again belong to her people,the Cypriots...
Eisai Tsiakkos!
Who or what is Tsiakkos?????
Tsiakkos=Clever
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