Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Well...As far as I am concerned partition is out of the question.

But we need not worry,it will never happen.The status quo is as close as we will get to a partition...As Nikitas said Turkey will not agree to any partition.She is only paying lip service to keep the likes of Talat and Co on side..Partition means independence for the TCs from Turkey,and an opportunity to recover their will to determine their own destiny...This will not be allowed...Turkey essentially does not trust what the TCs might do if left to their own devices...The most likely senario is this: when the TCs are totally and hopelessly outnumbered by the settlers,and when the settlers are in a political position to determine the fate of the trnc,there will be a referandum to decide if the "citizens" of the trnc want to move on mass to Turkey...The vote would be a resounding YES,if that is in Turkey's interest, in which case the Cyprus problem would be solved...
If Turkey's(or America's more likely) interests dictate otherwise,the result will be a resounding NO...In which case the status quo will continue with increasingly more settler occupation of the North...And then when Piratis' wish comes true and the balance of power changes Turkey will simply take over the rest of Cyprus,and the Cyprus problem would be solved that way...

So whichever way it goes some or all Cypriots will be the big losers...
And if I am still alive.I promise not to say "I told you so"...

[Viewpoint]

The ease with which Viewpoint and some others tell us that Turkey will go along with anything that the Turkish Cypriots decide in a possible partition settlement clashes with what respected commentators in the Turkish press say, and with what the General Staff and the Turkish government is saying.

The policy of Turkey all along has been to control, and if not control then influence or block, what happens in the WHOLE of Cyprus. This is the reason I keep asking the partition proponents here if they REALLY AND TRULY believe that a genuine partition into two actually and essentially independent states can be realised.

I am not a priori against partition if it can be implemented along the lines of fairnes of distribution of land, resources, respect for religious and historic monuments (of all communities) etc. But there has to be a guarantee of true independence and not some status of suzerain satellite nation of Turkey or Greece or both.

I do not believe Turkey is ready to let go of Cyprus and allow not one, but two independent republics. It had a hard time dealing with one! Those that believe that Turkey has changed its strategy (a geopolitical strategy not policy made by politicians) have not been reading the Turkish press and have not listened to interviews carefully. What is stressed in statements is that there are two separate communities on the island, and that the TRNC should be recognised, not that it should be independent of any other nation including Turkey.

I have written before about my position on partition and under what circumstances it would be fair, no need to reiterate here. Now you can all convince me by quoting statements from Turkish decision makers to prove your point. I would very much like to see if there are statements that support the view that Turkey is ready to let go if partition is chosen by both communities.

Gcs have not given TCs the green light for a clean break, if they agreed to a fair division then watch us get what we want from Turkey, leave that part to the TCs it wouldnt concern you anyway.

[Nikitas]

Viewpoint,

In the event of total partition into two independent nations I would have no problem with what you would do, unless you went and built a nuclear reactor in Kyrenia. My problem would be what Turkey would be doing to the SOUTH claiming that anything and everything would be against its vital interests in the area. The oil situation is recent evidence of such interference. Then we will have the search and rescue jurisdiction which already is in the list of disputes, and lord know what else.

A truly independent south Cyprus would be able to sign treaties of defence cooperation with any other independent state, including some that is not so friendly towards Turkey, and no I do not mean Greece. According to the statements made so far by Turkish officials there is no plan for such total freedom to be given any part of the island. Read the stink that was raised with the French defence cooperation agreement recently.

If partition will not bring true freedom and removal of threats why agree to it? Where is the gain to offset the loss? Convince all of us here that the Turkish Cypriot community has the power to claim its independence from Turkey. I read Turkish commentators and they think there is no such power. Are they all wrong?

[Expatkiwi]

Birkibrisli,

You honestly believe that? If I did, I would not be supporting the north. Annexation of the north by Turkey is something that I oppose, just as I oppose the imposition of a puppet government. Given the fact that the Turkish Cypriot government is a popularly elected body, it has popular ligitimacy as the representative organ of the Turkish Cypriot people, and Papadopoulos really should not forget that.

[Jerry]

Here's a thought, what would happen to the status of the north with regard to the EU if Cyprus were partitioned. Would the northern state automatically be in the EU? If it was in the EU before Turkey joins (if ever) to what extent would Turkey still be able to control and support north Cyprus. I'm thinking about matters like subsidies, immigration, currency, taxation and EU laws/directives. If the north did not join the EU, in the event of partition ,then I suppose it is safe to assume that neither Turkey or north Cyprus would ever become members of the club and would almost certainly unite.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,

In the event of total partition into two independent nations I would have no problem with what you would do, unless you went and built a nuclear reactor in Kyrenia. My problem would be what Turkey would be doing to the SOUTH claiming that anything and everything would be against its vital interests in the area. The oil situation is recent evidence of such interference. Then we will have the search and rescue jurisdiction which already is in the list of disputes, and lord know what else.

A truly independent south Cyprus would be able to sign treaties of defence cooperation with any other independent state, including some that is not so friendly towards Turkey, and no I do not mean Greece. According to the statements made so far by Turkish officials there is no plan for such total freedom to be given any part of the island. Read the stink that was raised with the French defence cooperation agreement recently.

If partition will not bring true freedom and removal of threats why agree to it? Where is the gain to offset the loss? Convince all of us here that the Turkish Cypriot community has the power to claim its independence from Turkey. I read Turkish commentators and they think there is no such power. Are they all wrong?

Tcs have not been given the opportunity or put in a position where they would take a stand to part ways with Turkey, in fact your policies have pushed us firmly towards Turkey, You will rid yourselves of having to share anything with TCs and you rule freely without TC interference, you will get back 12% of land increasing your share to 75%, you will have absolved yourselves of the Cyprus problem and no longer have thing hanging over you as a yoke around your neck, you will resolve your pending refugee problem by return of land or compensation immediately come to mind.

[miltiades]

Birkibrisli,

You honestly believe that? If I did, I would not be supporting the north. Annexation of the north by Turkey is something that I oppose, just as I oppose the imposition of a puppet government. Given the fact that the Turkish Cypriot government is a popularly elected body, it has popular ligitimacy as the representative organ of the Turkish Cypriot people, and Papadopoulos really should not forget that.

You seem to know a great deal of how our people here in Cyprus feel towards each other . Birkibrisly happens to be a T/C and I happen to be a G/C , never met each other and yet we share the same passion , to see our island united and all its people living in peace and harmony. He is my brother and I have the utmost respect for him. Neither he nor I dwell in the past , we both know and regret that some of our people committed atrocious crimes against each other. It was not one sided , both sets of fanatics made our people suffer. We look to the future , we embrace and spread the message of reconciliation respect and empathy.He is not a minority in his country of birth because he is , just as Im , a Cypriot , and neither do I CALL MY SELF PART OF THE MAJORITY , all Cypriots are my bothers and sisters . We are building bridges of trust and spreading the message of respect and understanding amongst our people. What are you spreading mate ??

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli,

You honestly believe that? If I did, I would not be supporting the north. Annexation of the north by Turkey is something that I oppose, just as I oppose the imposition of a puppet government. Given the fact that the Turkish Cypriot government is a popularly elected body, it has popular ligitimacy as the representative organ of the Turkish Cypriot people, and Papadopoulos really should not forget that.

You seem to know a great deal of how our people here in Cyprus feel towards each other . Birkibrisly happens to be a T/C and I happen to be a G/C , never met each other and yet we share the same passion , to see our island united and all its people living in peace and harmony. He is my brother and I have the utmost respect for him. Neither he nor I dwell in the past , we both know and regret that some of our people committed atrocious crimes against each other. It was not one sided , both sets of fanatics made our people suffer. We look to the future , we embrace and spread the message of reconciliation respect and empathy.He is not a minority in his country of birth because he is , just as Im , a Cypriot , and neither do I CALL MY SELF PART OF THE MAJORITY , all Cypriots are my bothers and sisters . We are building bridges of trust and spreading the message of respect and understanding amongst our people. What are you spreading mate ??

How is Surrey Miltiades? easy to dictate to others when you live in a bubble far far away from reality, where can we see "We are building bridges of trust and spreading the message of respect and understanding amongst our people." on the island, quite the opposite i happening here maybe you shoudl "spread" your message to the Gcs starting with the guy with big nose.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli,

You honestly believe that? If I did, I would not be supporting the north. Annexation of the north by Turkey is something that I oppose, just as I oppose the imposition of a puppet government. Given the fact that the Turkish Cypriot government is a popularly elected body, it has popular ligitimacy as the representative organ of the Turkish Cypriot people, and Papadopoulos really should not forget that.

Of course I honestly believe that,why whould I be saying it otherwise???

But lets not go over old grounds once again.Tell me Expatkiwi why do you believe the TC government is the true voice of Turkish Cypriots...???
And not just His Master'sVoice...Do you support the procedure of bringing settlers from Turkey and giving them the right to vote,hence essentialy stripping the TCs of their political will??? Papadopoulos knows exactly whose voice Talat and the Soyer government represents...Yet he is making his biggest mistake by not taking measures to attract more TCs to the South,hence creating a truly independent and powerful voice for TCs in Cyprus...As things stand,the TCs are placed betwen Turkey(a rock) and The Tpapa government (hard place),and they have nowhere to go but towards extinction as a community...Do you support that as well???
Pray tell us why you are such a strong supporter of Turkish interests in Cyprus??? You are gravely mistaken if you think Turkey's interests are the same as the TCs interests in Cyprus...You have seemingly swallowed the fanatical Turkish nationalist arguments hook,line,and sinker...

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli,

You honestly believe that? If I did, I would not be supporting the north. Annexation of the north by Turkey is something that I oppose, just as I oppose the imposition of a puppet government. Given the fact that the Turkish Cypriot government is a popularly elected body, it has popular ligitimacy as the representative organ of the Turkish Cypriot people, and Papadopoulos really should not forget that.

You seem to know a great deal of how our people here in Cyprus feel towards each other . Birkibrisly happens to be a T/C and I happen to be a G/C , never met each other and yet we share the same passion , to see our island united and all its people living in peace and harmony. He is my brother and I have the utmost respect for him. Neither he nor I dwell in the past , we both know and regret that some of our people committed atrocious crimes against each other. It was not one sided , both sets of fanatics made our people suffer. We look to the future , we embrace and spread the message of reconciliation respect and empathy.He is not a minority in his country of birth because he is , just as Im , a Cypriot , and neither do I CALL MY SELF PART OF THE MAJORITY , all Cypriots are my bothers and sisters . We are building bridges of trust and spreading the message of respect and understanding amongst our people. What are you spreading mate ??

Spoken like a True Cypriot that you are,my brother...

One day in not too distant future,all Cypriots will realise that they only have each other to depend on when Cypriots' interests are concerned.
Other nations look after their own interests,and this in Cyprus has meant untold pain and suffering for a lot of us...The only way forward is to remove the root cause of our suffering,the ethnicity we so stupidly insist hanging onto even when it is crushing us under its weight...A democratic,modern European state,based on the rule of the law,human rights and equal opportunity principles is what We deserve as Cypriots,and that is what we will get,sooner or later...Make no mistake about it,the alternative is not Partition,but total Turkification or Hellenisation of the whole island...don't say I didn't warn you.