Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

So wise guy tell us what your intelligence has understood.

[miltiades]

This thread puzzles me insofar as the title - 'we have to consider partition' - suggests consideration of a future possiblity whereas partition is a description of a long established reality.

There is an elephant in the room and no one can bring themselves to mention it, albeit their reluctance is for different reasons. Some say the elephant is an illegality, some say the elephant is a friend, some say the elephant is an enemy, but all deny that there is an elephant in the room, at worst it is still wandering around outside.

To admit that there is an elephant in the room does not entail approval or disapproval of its presence, but it is mighty odd to seek to discount its 33 year residency. And how many more years will the elephant live with us before we acknowledge - not approve, but acknowledge - its real and lasting effect ?

Very well put CopperLine, takes intelligence to understand what you are saying but a blind man will always be blind no matter how precise you are, only a miracle can make him see.

Isnt it ashame that this "elephant" is seen by the International community , of which we are all part of , as an occupying army of some 40 thousand foreign troops. Partition or rather forced partition , can not be considered as the legal state of this part of Cyprus when its enactment was instigated by the force of gun. More like a "shotgun wedding " if you like.
What we need is reconciliation and respect for the concerns of both of our communities , we do not want our future generations to be susceptible to conflict , pain and sorrow because of the likes of the fanatics who are hell bent on creating an atmosphere of mistrust and hatred. We are one and the same , Cypriots above all else .

[DT.]

This thread puzzles me insofar as the title - 'we have to consider partition' - suggests consideration of a future possiblity whereas partition is a description of a long established reality.

There is an elephant in the room and no one can bring themselves to mention it, albeit their reluctance is for different reasons. Some say the elephant is an illegality, some say the elephant is a friend, some say the elephant is an enemy, but all deny that there is an elephant in the room, at worst it is still wandering around outside.

To admit that there is an elephant in the room does not entail approval or disapproval of its presence, but it is mighty odd to seek to discount its 33 year residency. And how many more years will the elephant live with us before we acknowledge - not approve, but acknowledge - its real and lasting effect ?

everyone acknowledges it mate, don't know what you mean here. If we didn't all aknowledge your elephant what are we all talking about then?

Cursing the elephant is another form of acknowledging it. Its just one thing acknowledging an elephant and a different thing calling it Spike and inviting it in your house for a can of pedigree.

[Viewpoint]

This thread puzzles me insofar as the title - 'we have to consider partition' - suggests consideration of a future possiblity whereas partition is a description of a long established reality.

There is an elephant in the room and no one can bring themselves to mention it, albeit their reluctance is for different reasons. Some say the elephant is an illegality, some say the elephant is a friend, some say the elephant is an enemy, but all deny that there is an elephant in the room, at worst it is still wandering around outside.

To admit that there is an elephant in the room does not entail approval or disapproval of its presence, but it is mighty odd to seek to discount its 33 year residency. And how many more years will the elephant live with us before we acknowledge - not approve, but acknowledge - its real and lasting effect ?

Very well put CopperLine, takes intelligence to understand what you are saying but a blind man will always be blind no matter how precise you are, only a miracle can make him see.

Isnt it ashame that this "elephant" is seen by the International community , of which we are all part of , as an occupying army of some 40 thousand foreign troops. Partition or rather forced partition , can not be considered as the legal state of this part of Cyprus when its enactment was instigated by the force of gun. More like a "shotgun wedding " if you like.
What we need is reconciliation and respect for the concerns of both of our communities , we do not want our future generations to be susceptible to conflict , pain and sorrow because of the likes of the fanatics who are hell bent on creating an atmosphere of mistrust and hatred. We are one and the same , Cypriots above all else .

The elephant is the TRNC not the army and the non acknowledgement is the GC saying that there is no entity which stares them in the face every day. Compromise is needed and to compromise you have to have vision and desire to to accommodate but if you have 90% of what you desire why risk this for 10% that you can do without as long as you keep them quite and duped into believing one day they all go home to how it was.

[denizaksulu]

If Turks want a chance of having partition be accepted by the majority of GCs then they should propose an 18%-82% partition, and accept that they should first return the agreed land to RoC and then have any kind of recognition.

If that does not happen then the current situation will simply continue for as long as it takes for the balance of power to change and RoC to reclaim its own land.

There is no chance in a billion that any "trnc" can be recognized without our agreement since the pseudo state is the result of an illegal invasion, occupation and ethnic cleansing. The north part of Cyprus is the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs.

Even in the case of Kosovo where the AngloAmericans are openly pushing for its recognition as separate state, and where the majority of Albanians is something that happened legally and not by ethnic cleansing and invasion, and still they can not achieve it.

I said it many times before and I will say it again: Either we will all share the whole Cyprus proportionately in a democratic way, or we will split it proportionally. If the Turks want to gain land on our loss they should be sure we will not capitulate, and they should be sure that without our agreement they can not legalize anything.

piratis, the exponent of @partition'. The mind boggles.

[CopperLine]

There's always a danger in using extended metaphors that the wrong analogue is identified. My intention was to make the de facto partition the analogue of the elephant (and not Turkey, an occupying army or anything else). Indeed the point was demonstrated that one can't see what's immediately in front of us precisely when people resort to the familiar and well-worn assumption that the elephant is the T. army, etc.

All said, perhaps the metaphor was too obtuse.

[Get Real!]

The elephant is the TRNC not the army and the non acknowledgement is the GC saying that there is no entity which stares them in the face every day.

You were never really good at parallels were you VP? Allow me to clarify things for you…

The "elephant" is Turkey and the "TRNC" is the elephant's poo... (the mess Turkey created in Cyprus)

[Get Real!]

There's always a danger in using extended metaphors that the wrong analogue is identified. My intention was to make the de facto partition the analogue of the elephant (and not Turkey, an occupying army or anything else). Indeed the point was demonstrated that one can't see what's immediately in front of us precisely when people resort to the familiar and well-worn assumption that the elephant is the T. army, etc.

All said, perhaps the metaphor was too obtuse.

Well then quit playing with elephants or any other animals for that matter and start making some DIRECT, MEANINGFUL, and CONSTRUCTIVE posts for a change.

[Nikitas]

The ease with which Viewpoint and some others tell us that Turkey will go along with anything that the Turkish Cypriots decide in a possible partition settlement clashes with what respected commentators in the Turkish press say, and with what the General Staff and the Turkish government is saying.

The policy of Turkey all along has been to control, and if not control then influence or block, what happens in the WHOLE of Cyprus. This is the reason I keep asking the partition proponents here if they REALLY AND TRULY believe that a genuine partition into two actually and essentially independent states can be realised.

I am not a priori against partition if it can be implemented along the lines of fairnes of distribution of land, resources, respect for religious and historic monuments (of all communities) etc. But there has to be a guarantee of true independence and not some status of suzerain satellite nation of Turkey or Greece or both.

I do not believe Turkey is ready to let go of Cyprus and allow not one, but two independent republics. It had a hard time dealing with one! Those that believe that Turkey has changed its strategy (a geopolitical strategy not policy made by politicians) have not been reading the Turkish press and have not listened to interviews carefully. What is stressed in statements is that there are two separate communities on the island, and that the TRNC should be recognised, not that it should be independent of any other nation including Turkey.

I have written before about my position on partition and under what circumstances it would be fair, no need to reiterate here. Now you can all convince me by quoting statements from Turkish decision makers to prove your point. I would very much like to see if there are statements that support the view that Turkey is ready to let go if partition is chosen by both communities.

[Kikapu]

The elephant is the TRNC not the army and the non acknowledgement is the GC saying that there is no entity which stares them in the face every day. Compromise is needed and to compromise you have to have vision and desire to to accommodate but if you have 90% of what you desire why risk this for 10% that you can do without as long as you keep them quite and duped into believing one day they all go home to how it was.

VP is correct, the Elephant is the "TRNC". The only problem is, it is a "White Elephant" which is not regarded to be very favourable to whom ever owns it, which in this case, it has to be Turkey, since they are the ones who are guarding this
"White Elephant".

Here is a short definition of a "White Elephant" by Wikipedia.

A white elephant is a supposedly valuable possession whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) exceeds its usefulness, and it is therefore a liability.

Anymore metaphors CopperLine.?