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by **Jerry** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:02 am

VP wrote:-
They will have to accept what the majority of their community wants but will be faced with choices

My God! there's a change of opinion, I never thought I would see it in print.
(my underline)

by **Viewpoint** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am

Jerry wrote:VP wrote:-
They will have to accept what the majority of their community wants but will be faced with choices

My God! there's a change of opinion, I never thought I would see it in print.
(my underline)

But they will have choices either the TRNC or the "RoC" if they want to unite with GCs they can choose the "Roc" if they want to stay with the TCs they can chose the TRNC...they will not be forced to do anything against their will as there will be 2 choices, not 1 forced one, theres a big difference.

by **Jerry** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:18 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:VP wrote:-
They will have to accept what the majority of their community wants but will be faced with choices

My God! there's a change of opinion, I never thought I would see it in print.
(my underline)

But they will have choices either the TRNC or the "RoC" if they want to unite with GCs they can choose the "Roc" if they want to stay with the TCs they can chose the TRNC...they will not be forced to do anything against their will as there will be 2 choices, not 1 forced one, theres a big difference.

You are splitting hairs here VP. whether the minority have one or two choices you appear to have changed your view on the principle "what the majority want" to suit your own silly argument.
Incidentally the TCs did have more than one choice they but they wanted more than was on offer.

by **Nikitas** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:27 am

Like I said, some people have not thought things out and have not considered what Turkey wants.

Bulent Ecevit speaking in several different interviews, to English and Greek media said that partition into two independent states which can lead to double union is not an acceptable solution to Turkey because "it would make Greece a Middle Eastern power" and that result is unacceptable to Turkey.

As for the last 33 years Viewpoint we have not had partition into two independent states. I will not characterize what we have, but two independent states we definitely do not have. Independence means that eah state is free to proceed with whatever alliances, treaties, participation in international bodies it wants to do etc. Which means that the northern part, if it were independent, presumably would enter into a defence agreement with Turkey and the southern part with Greece or OTHER POWER, and that is precisely what Turkey does not want. One way to prevent this is via the Federal solution. So I have been alive for the last 33 years and unlike other people I have been awake too during that time.

NOw for the boy born in London after 1974 of Turkish Cypriot parents. He does get British nationality, also through patrial nationality and the provisions of the Cyprus Constitution he is also a Cypriot national. International law prohibits the retraction of nationality by a state. Cyprus would not be allowed to retract or cancel the nationality if its nationals. Only individuals would be able to renounce their nationality. The only thing Cyprus could do is to prohibit dual nationality in both new states. In effect we would still have a Turkish minority in the south no matter what happens. Back to square one!

Those here who are not aware of the difficulties involved should look into the situation of Greeks born in Turkey (Istanbul, Imvros, Tenedos etc) and expelled after the 1955 riots. The property and nationality problems are haunting Turkey's progress in Europe to this day.

by **free_cyprus** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:36 am

Nikitas wrote:Like I said, some people have not thought things out and have not considered what Turkey wants.

Bulent Ecevit speaking in several different interviews, to English and Greek media said that partition into two independent states which can lead to double union is not an acceptable solution to Turkey because "it would make Greece a Middle Eastern power" and that result is unacceptable to Turkey.

As for the last 33 years Viewpoint we have not had partition into two independent states. I will not characterize what we have, but two independent states we definitely do not have. Independence means that eah state is free to proceed with whatever alliances, treaties, participation in international bodies it wants to do etc. Which means that the northern part, if it were independent, presumably would enter into a defence agreement with Turkey and the southern part with Greece or OTHER POWER, and that is precisely what Turkey does not want. One way to prevent this is via the Federal solution. So I have been alive for the last 33 years and unlike other people I have been awake too during that time.

NOw for the boy born in London after 1974 of Turkish Cypriot parents. He does get British nationality, also through patrial nationality and the provisions of the Cyprus Constitution he is also a Cypriot national. International law prohibits the retraction of nationality by a state. Cyprus would not be allowed to retract or cancel the nationality if its nationals. Only individuals would be able to renounce their nationality. The only thing Cyprus could do is to prohibit dual nationality in both new states. In effect we would still have a Turkish minority in the south no matter what happens. Back to square one!

Those here who are not aware of the difficulties involved should look into the situation of Greeks born in Turkey (Istanbul, Imvros, Tenedos etc) and expelled after the 1955 riots. The property and nationality problems are haunting Turkey's progress in Europe to this day.

so far i have not hear one single argument in this forum that actualy says we want a united cyprus, soon as cyprus is mentioned we speak of independece that we never got, independence that was drawn up by outsiders to creat more problems for us cypriots, not only did they creat problems for us before the soo called independence, but during it and even now the soo called three garantors, are still doing their bit to keep cyprus devided,

we cannot have unity if we are always answering to greece and turkey, we cannot have unity as long as we keep blaming each other, we cannot have unity unless we change our thinking, we cannot have unity unless we practice the art of forgiveness that all people of cyprus suffered not only today yesterday but through out history.
we cannot have unity unless we drop all this nonsense that we are greeks and turks, we cannot have unity unless we embrace each other as cypriots

by **miltiades** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:46 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Jerry wrote:VP wrote:-
They will have to accept what the majority of their community wants but will be faced with choices

My God! there's a change of opinion, I never thought I would see it in print.
(my underline)

But they will have choices either the TRNC or the "RoC" if they want to unite with GCs they can choose the "Roc" if they want to stay with the TCs they can chose the TRNC...they will not be forced to do anything against their will as there will be 2 choices, not 1 forced one, theres a big difference.

Well is an obvious choice surely !! The recognised one , the TRNC !!!

by **Viewpoint** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:42 pm

Nikitas

Like I said, some people have not thought things out and have not considered what Turkey wants.

Leave that up to us, if we agree recognition for land then Turkey will have to listen and support our decision but they know you will never agree to such a solution.

Bulent Ecevit speaking in several different interviews, to English and Greek media said that partition into two independent states which can lead to double union is not an acceptable solution to Turkey because "it would make Greece a Middle Eastern power" and that result is unacceptable to Turkey.

Mr Ecevit is dead, you shoudl listen more to Mr Erdogan.

As for the last 33 years Viewpoint we have not had partition into two independent states. I will not characterize what we have, but two independent states we definitely do not have. Independence means that eah state is free to proceed with whatever alliances, treaties, participation in international bodies it wants to do etc. Which means that the northern part, if it were independent, presumably would enter into a defence agreement with Turkey and the southern part with Greece or OTHER POWER, and that is precisely what Turkey does not want. One way to prevent this is via the Federal solution. So I have been alive for the last 33 years and unlike other people I have been awake too during that time.

Are you denying that the island is physically partitioned since 1974?

We have 2 states one recognized the other not, doesnt chage the fact that we are a fuctioning state with our own country organs eg President Mps Government Police Army hospitals schools etc etc..

You may have been alive but you have been in denial non recognition does not change the fact that the TRNC exsists and you can visit any time you wish, this will not change until we say we want to move onto a better situation, you can ignore this fact but be 100% certain it will not get you anywhere but the stalemate we have today.

NOw for the boy born in London after 1974 of Turkish Cypriot parents. He does get British nationality, also through patrial nationality and the provisions of the Cyprus Constitution he is also a Cypriot national. International law prohibits the retraction of nationality by a state. Cyprus would not be allowed to retract or cancel the nationality if its nationals. Only individuals would be able to renounce their nationality. The only thing Cyprus could do is to prohibit dual nationality in both new states. In effect we would still have a Turkish minority in the south no matter what happens. Back to square one!

So? let everyone chose for themselves what nationality they wish to be, if TCs want "RoC" citizenship then let them have it, you can refuse any new applicants and accept those that denounce "RoC" citizenship.

Those here who are not aware of the difficulties involved should look into the situation of Greeks born in Turkey (Istanbul, Imvros, Tenedos etc) and expelled after the 1955 riots. The property and nationality problems are haunting Turkey's progress in Europe to this day.

Please ask your questions with more clarity so that I may be allowed to explain how partition would and will be the only choice available to 2 communities who cannot see eye to eye on a future united better to allow them to go their separate ways than force them to live together.

by **Eric dayi** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:01 pm

humanist wrote:Eric I have nothing to say to you. I have seen your previous posts

That's ok, you can run if you like, no skin off my nose.

by **Get Real!** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:13 pm

Eric dayi wrote:
humanist wrote:Eric I have nothing to say to you. I have seen your previous posts

That's ok, you can run if you like, no skin off my nose.

How do you do it Eric Dayi? No matter which forum you join you always end up the...

by **miltiades** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:24 pm

VP WROTE :

""""We have 2 states one recognized the other not, doesnt chage the fact that we are a fuctioning state with our own country organs eg President Mps Government Police Army hospitals schools etc etc..

So? let everyone chose for themselves what nationality they wish to be, if TCs want "RoC" citizenship then let them have it, you can refuse any new applicants and accept those that denounce "RoC" citizenship. """""

Judging by the inverted commas I take it that when you say "" We have 2 states one recognized the other not ""
you mean the TRNC IS THE RECOGNISED STATE !!!

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