Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

Birkibrisli

Quite right! I do not relinquish my standpoint that Turkey has had a gruesome past and the after effects are still pretty much with us.

Perhaps you are right that one asks for the impossible when requiring acknowledgement and apologies from Turkey. . .

. . . and you obviously sympathise with the plight of the Kurds and Armenians.

But why not the same for the GCs?

. . . the numbers may be different but on a relative scale who has suffered worse from Turkey's tyrannies . .

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Heavens above . . you Turks make life difficult even if in your case I consider you a dignitary and your behaviour of the highest noblesse oblige.

You do exude empathy . . . whereas I am much more Nietzsche - ean.

The thinking cap is back on (as well as protective gear) . . . and I promise I shall make a worthwhile effort and think about the plight of the TCs living alongside GCs . . . whilst I finish my decorating!!

Post later.

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:
You are a GC who appears on the surface to like TCs but if you were to have to choose between the GC point of view and the TCs point of view you would sell us out in the blink of an eye and for me that is the most dangerous type of Cypriots there is, at least I am honest and upfront and say what I what ı accept and do not accept you are the one who is a walking time bomb that can explode int he face of TCs when you least expect it.
Again your interpreting my words and actions with a sinuous agenda.

I call it as I see it, nothing more nothing less...for me you are the danger as people like Kifeas and Piratis declare their intentions towards our community but you are a concealed bomb waiting to explode.

It goes to show how totally misguided you are.
Just read what Bir says , you may begin to understand .

[BirKibrisli]

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

Birkibrisli

Quite right! I do not relinquish my standpoint that Turkey has had a gruesome past and the after effects are still pretty much with us.

Perhaps you are right that one asks for the impossible when requiring acknowledgement and apologies from Turkey. . .

. . . and you obviously sympathise with the plight of the Kurds and Armenians.

But why not the same for the GCs?

. . . the numbers may be different but on a relative scale who has suffered worse from Turkey's tyrannies . .

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Heavens above . . you Turks make life difficult even if in your case I consider you a dignitary and your behaviour of the highest noblesse oblige.

You do exude empathy . . . whereas I am much more Nietzsche - ean.

The thinking cap is back on (as well as protective gear) . . . and I promise I shall make a worthwhile effort and think about the plight of the TCs living alongside GCs . . . whilst I finish my decorating!!

Post later.

Promises promises...

[denizaksulu]

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

Birkibrisli

Quite right! I do not relinquish my standpoint that Turkey has had a gruesome past and the after effects are still pretty much with us.

Perhaps you are right that one asks for the impossible when requiring acknowledgement and apologies from Turkey. . .

. . . and you obviously sympathise with the plight of the Kurds and Armenians.

But why not the same for the GCs?

. . . the numbers may be different but on a relative scale who has suffered worse from Turkey's tyrannies . .

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Heavens above . . you Turks make life difficult even if in your case I consider you a dignitary and your behaviour of the highest noblesse oblige.

You do exude empathy . . . whereas I am much more Nietzsche - ean.

The thinking cap is back on (as well as protective gear) . . . and I promise I shall make a worthwhile effort and think about the plight of the TCs living alongside GCs . . . whilst I finish my decorating!!

Post later.

PHOENIX COME BACK. I was waiting for your reply here! Damn it, he's run off again. Back to F_C for me now. Where the hell is he?

[phoenix]

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Each injustice is a crime even though Stalin declared "One death is a tragedy, a thousand deaths, a statistic". And Cyprus is riddled with statistics.
My resistance to empathy with the TCs comes from this small fact. Because we never asked the Turks (Ottomans, whatever) to invade us, or to stay, any consequential actions or reactions by the GCs are legitimate if they serve the purpose to remove the invaders. It's a natural reaction to restore order.

Because of our disproportionate differences in numbers . . we have found it particularly difficult to extricate this enemy.

And that's the crux, Bir. Turkey and it's people are my enemies, the GCs enemies. They will always be, unless they can relinquish ANY claim to power they have in the running of my country and allow themselves to assimilate into the unique culture that is Cyprus. To keep fighting with us for power, to keep making us feel guilty for wanting what is naturally ours is a BIG wrong, a CRIME.

So I harden against Turkey and the TCs because I want my country back and if TCs want to stay, great, BUT unashamedly on our terms.

Birkibrisli, you sound like a nice man and there are many nice TCs but my country folk come first and unless you allow us this one thing, to run our own country in our own way, with you along or not, then you are not with us. You are against us and our sovereignty.

Turkey is my ENEMY . . and I want it OUT of my country. Turkey has ruined the lives of so many of my people I should not be forced to empathise with it or the TCs . . . . it would be like asking a mother to empathise with her child's murderer. Unnecessary and quite wrong.

I will live my life in the hope that we can find a solution to removing the Turks from Cyprus.

[74LB]

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Each injustice is a crime even though Stalin declared "One death is a tragedy, a thousand deaths, a statistic". And Cyprus is riddled with statistics.
My resistance to empathy with the TCs comes from this small fact. Because we never asked the Turks (Ottomans, whatever) to invade us, or to stay, any consequential actions or reactions by the GCs are legitimate if they serve the purpose to remove the invaders. It's a natural reaction to restore order.

Because of our disproportionate differences in numbers . . we have found it particularly difficult to extricate this enemy.

And that's the crux, Bir. Turkey and it's people are my enemies, the GCs enemies. They will always be, unless they can relinquish ANY claim to power they have in the running of my country and allow themselves to assimilate into the unique culture that is Cyprus. To keep fighting with us for power, to keep making us feel guilty for wanting what is naturally ours is a BIG wrong, a CRIME.

So I harden against Turkey and the TCs because I want my country back and if TCs want to stay, great, BUT unashamedly on our terms.

Birkibrisli, you sound like a nice man and there are many nice TCs but my country folk come first and unless you allow us this one thing, to run our own country in our own way, with you along or not, then you are not with us. You are against us and our sovereignty.

Turkey is my ENEMY . . and I want it OUT of my country. Turkey has ruined the lives of so many of my people I should not be forced to empathise with it or the TCs . . . . it would be like asking a mother to empathise with her child's murderer. Unnecessary and quite wrong.

I will live my life in the hope that we can find a solution to removing the Turks from Cyprus.

Phoenix
But don't you understand that those views I highlighted in your post will add credence to the TC view that we have no place in your united RoC ?
Heaven knows what the future holds for TC's once the Turkish army leaves if you want to run the country "your way" "your terms", period.

[Get Real!]

So I harden against Turkey and the TCs because I want my country back and if TCs want to stay, great, BUT unashamedly on our terms.

Birkibrisli, you sound like a nice man and there are many nice TCs but my country folk come first and unless you allow us this one thing, to run our own country in our own way, with you along or not, then you are not with us. You are against us and our sovereignty.

Phoenix
But don't you understand that those views I highlighted in your post will add credence to the TC view that we have no place in your united RoC ?
Heaven knows what the future holds for TC's once the Turkish army leaves if you want to run the country "your way" "your terms", period.

That's based on the assumption that Phoenix's way is bad. You might first want to ask for details of the "way" before passing judgement.

[miltiades]

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...

Each injustice is a crime even though Stalin declared "One death is a tragedy, a thousand deaths, a statistic". And Cyprus is riddled with statistics.
My resistance to empathy with the TCs comes from this small fact. Because we never asked the Turks (Ottomans, whatever) to invade us, or to stay, any consequential actions or reactions by the GCs are legitimate if they serve the purpose to remove the invaders. It's a natural reaction to restore order.

Because of our disproportionate differences in numbers . . we have found it particularly difficult to extricate this enemy.

And that's the crux, Bir. Turkey and it's people are my enemies, the GCs enemies. They will always be, unless they can relinquish ANY claim to power they have in the running of my country and allow themselves to assimilate into the unique culture that is Cyprus. To keep fighting with us for power, to keep making us feel guilty for wanting what is naturally ours is a BIG wrong, a CRIME.

So I harden against Turkey and the TCs because I want my country back and if TCs want to stay, great, BUT unashamedly on our terms.

Birkibrisli, you sound like a nice man and there are many nice TCs but my country folk come first and unless you allow us this one thing, to run our own country in our own way, with you along or not, then you are not with us. You are against us and our sovereignty.

Turkey is my ENEMY . . and I want it OUT of my country. Turkey has ruined the lives of so many of my people I should not be forced to empathise with it or the TCs . . . . it would be like asking a mother to empathise with her child's murderer. Unnecessary and quite wrong.

I will live my life in the hope that we can find a solution to removing the Turks from Cyprus.

Such absolute nonsense , is Eric your brother by any chance.How irresponsible to post such total garbage. It is precisely this type of talk that makes the T/Cs move closer to Turkey . I want to assure them that your views are in the minority and that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots want a peaceful coexistence with mutual respect and equality under the law. Such comments are not only irresponsible but dangerous.
The T/Cs belong in Cyprus just as much as you and I.

[Viewpoint]

When I moved to the TRNC and started to understand the intricacies of the situation

...with heaps and heaps of land, my mind changed in a jiffy. now i want partition because i want to keep all the land that was given to me.

is it so hard for everyone to understand?

Land is not very high on my list of priorities, political equality and security are more important for me.

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

I always had backbone,VP...
Just that you chose not to see it when it doesn't suit you.

Maybe you can increase your own crediblity with your own ethnic kind if you showed it once and while by trying to convey the TCs point of view.

I keep saying this: the problem will be solved when TCs empathise with the GCs and vice versa...That is why I am harder on my own side. This doesn't mean I do not see my own side's point of view...But it doesn't help advance trust and understanding if I kept repeating the TC point of view all the time..

Why not there are enough GCs fighting their corner they dont really need you to put forwards their arguements unless you are playing to the stands and trying to score a few brownie points. You ignore your sides poin of view and always end up being dubbed a GC lap dog.

And I hope you too will allow yourself sometime to empathise with the GCs,the hundreds of thousand of innocent people who had to suffer for the mistakes of their leaders and foreign power manipulations...To imagine what it was like to be driven out of your home at gunpoint with fear for your life and dignity...

What more can I say than put forward my ideas for a solution where GCs would get back their property rights and we would share the island together as 2 equal communities but knowing the GCs will agree to this for me agreed partition is the only real solution and it looks like the one we are fast heading towards. You seem to forget that it was not only the GCs who ran away in fear the TC suffered the same drawn out fate from 1963 to 1974 but I do not hear you once argue their suffering and pain that's why for me you need to show more empathy towards your community first before you can claim to have any backbone.

VP...you are doing your best not to acknowledge what I am about...
I am all about promoting trust and understanding,empathy and compassion...These are what will save us,both GCs and TCs from cultural extinction...What would be the use of my repeating the official TC and Turkish line ???? More people from both sides need to show empathy with the other side. That way we will realise how much we both have suffered during this senseless conflict.And might even start to see how foreign interests played us against each other using the ethnicity and unthinking nationalism cards...

The more standard propaganda lines are thrown back and forth from both sides,the further away we get from respect and trust...Don't forget that I lived through the 63-69 period in Cyprus. I was lucky enough to be in the Nicosia enclave,which probably faired best during that time..But when I visited my village in Paphos in summer holidays I had to go throught the GC checkpoints and suffered many indignities in the process...I have told about them in the past...But I see no point repeating them non stop,since
I believe we need to put them to rest and move on...Times have changed.Cyprus is in the EU...The GCs no longer want Enosis. Eoka is dead and buried...Why do you still insist we are living in the 63-74 period????It makes you suspect that you are only intereseted in keeping the past misdeeds alive in order to justify the status quo and the Partition to come...And it also makes you one of the big obstacles on the way to a just and peaceful solution...

What have I asked for that is so extreme and why do you think we should not fight our own corner and what we believe will be a united Cyprus where the structure will ensure safeguards make sure the past will not be repeated, if the GCs are 100% they will not then these safeguards will in time be defuncted, but what I sense is they have other agendas and they want to leave the door open to allow them to dominate us as a community and you are asisting them obtain their goals.