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[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

I always had backbone,VP...
Just that you chose not to see it when it doesn't suit you.

Maybe you can increase your own crediblity with your own ethnic kind if you showed it once and while by trying to convey the TCs point of view.

I keep saying this: the problem will be solved when TCs empathise with the GCs and vice versa...That is why I am harder on my own side. This doesn't mean I do not see my own side's point of view...But it doesn't help advance trust and understanding if I kept repeating the TC point of view all the time..

Why not there are enough GCs fighting their corner they dont really need you to put forwards their arguements unless you are playing to the stands and trying to score a few brownie points. You ignore your sides poin of view and always end up being dubbed a GC lap dog.

And I hope you too will allow yourself sometime to empathise with the GCs,the hundreds of thousand of innocent people who had to suffer for the mistakes of their leaders and foreign power manipulations...To imagine what it was like to be driven out of your home at gunpoint with fear for your life and dignity...

What more can I say than put forward my ideas for a solution where GCs would get back their property rights and we would share the island together as 2 equal communities but knowing the GCs will agree to this for me agreed partition is the only real solution and it looks like the one we are fast heading towards. You seem to forget that it was not only the GCs who ran away in fear the TC suffered the same drawn out fate from 1963 to 1974 but I do not hear you once argue their suffering and pain that's why for me you need to show more empathy towards your community first before you can claim to have any backbone.

[Viewpoint]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

At last some back bone, this person represents the majority of GCs and the problem we face if we are ever to be stupid enough to accept going back to the 1960 agreements, the safeguards have to be increased as per the Ap to ensure they are never allowed to even attempt anything stupid and pay a very heavy price if they ever do, eg recognition of the north state.

And who told you that he represents the opinions of the G/C majority anymore than you represent the opinions of the T/C majority.
Here we have a wise man , Bir , battling with the unwise , the lost souls , the brainwashed by propaganda individuals , both G/C and T/C , come to think of it you and Phoenix are pretty similar.

I am the voice of the average TC and my ideas are not to extreme compared to many TCs as you will meet many TCs who dont give a damn about empathy or understanding GC pain and flatly refuse to even give GCs the time of day, saying once a gavur always a gavur and that they will stab you in the back the oppoertunity they get so they should never be trusted.

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:

""""I am the voice of the average TC and my ideas are not to extreme compared to many TCs as you will meet many TCs who dont give a damn about empathy or understanding GC pain and flatly refuse to even give GCs the time of day, saying once a gavur always a gavur and that they will stab you in the back the oppoertunity they get so they should never be trusted. """"
No you are not , most definitely not. On average I see and exchange views with more than 50 T/Cs per week if not more , remember I sell Doner Kebab machines !!
Your views are not as extreme as some on this forum but this is because you are more educated than the likes Eric and some others. You are also a family man .But certainly the vast majority of T/Cs do not see the G/Cs as their profound enemy and vise verse.
Hand on your heart would you say that I see the T/Cs as my enemy ??


_________________

[Viewpoint]

VP WROTE:

""""I am the voice of the average TC and my ideas are not to extreme compared to many TCs as you will meet many TCs who dont give a damn about empathy or understanding GC pain and flatly refuse to even give GCs the time of day, saying once a gavur always a gavur and that they will stab you in the back the oppoertunity they get so they should never be trusted. """"
No you are not , most definitely not. On average I see and exchange views with more than 50 T/Cs per week if not more , remember I sell Doner Kebab machines !!
Your views are not as extreme as some on this forum but this is because you are more educated than the likes Eric and some others. You are also a family man .But certainly the vast majority of T/Cs do not see the G/Cs as their profound enemy and vise verse.
Hand on your heart would you say that I see the T/Cs as my enemy ??


_________________

You talk and interact with TCs in the UK they are all diplomats, I know cause I was the same when I lived there, you all think you are close because you share the same back round and island. When I moved to the TRNC and started to understand the intricacies of the situation and the GC stance plus going through the referendum I changed my opinion 100% and decided that although unification is desired it will never be possible due to the past and our current uncompromising deadlock, the chasm is to wide to pass and any attempt to do so will fail miserably, that's why I see agreed partition as the only real solution with any prospects of succeeding but of course GCs do not want me to have what they have without them having full control over it.

You are a GC who appears on the surface to like TCs but if you were to have to choose between the GC point of view and the TCs point of view you would sell us out in the blink of an eye and for me that is the most dangerous type of Cypriots there is, at least I am honest and upfront and say what I what ı accept and do not accept you are the one who is a walking time bomb that can explode int he face of TCs when you least expect it.

[boomerang]

When I moved to the TRNC and started to understand the intricacies of the situation

...with heaps and heaps of land, my mind changed in a jiffy. now i want partition because i want to keep all the land that was given to me.

is it so hard for everyone to understand?

[phoenix]

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

Birkibrisli

Quite right! I do not relinquish my standpoint that Turkey has had a gruesome past and the after effects are still pretty much with us.

Perhaps you are right that one asks for the impossible when requiring acknowledgement and apologies from Turkey. . .

. . . and you obviously sympathise with the plight of the Kurds and Armenians.

But why not the same for the GCs?

. . . the numbers may be different but on a relative scale who has suffered worse from Turkey's tyrannies . .

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:
You are a GC who appears on the surface to like TCs but if you were to have to choose between the GC point of view and the TCs point of view you would sell us out in the blink of an eye and for me that is the most dangerous type of Cypriots there is, at least I am honest and upfront and say what I what ı accept and do not accept you are the one who is a walking time bomb that can explode int he face of TCs when you least expect it.
Again your interpreting my words and actions with a sinuous agenda.

[Viewpoint]

VP WROTE:
You are a GC who appears on the surface to like TCs but if you were to have to choose between the GC point of view and the TCs point of view you would sell us out in the blink of an eye and for me that is the most dangerous type of Cypriots there is, at least I am honest and upfront and say what I what ı accept and do not accept you are the one who is a walking time bomb that can explode int he face of TCs when you least expect it.
Again your interpreting my words and actions with a sinuous agenda.

I call it as I see it, nothing more nothing less...for me you are the danger as people like Kifeas and Piratis declare their intentions towards our community but you are a concealed bomb waiting to explode.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli

I always had backbone,VP...
Just that you chose not to see it when it doesn't suit you.

Maybe you can increase your own crediblity with your own ethnic kind if you showed it once and while by trying to convey the TCs point of view.

I keep saying this: the problem will be solved when TCs empathise with the GCs and vice versa...That is why I am harder on my own side. This doesn't mean I do not see my own side's point of view...But it doesn't help advance trust and understanding if I kept repeating the TC point of view all the time..

Why not there are enough GCs fighting their corner they dont really need you to put forwards their arguements unless you are playing to the stands and trying to score a few brownie points. You ignore your sides poin of view and always end up being dubbed a GC lap dog.

And I hope you too will allow yourself sometime to empathise with the GCs,the hundreds of thousand of innocent people who had to suffer for the mistakes of their leaders and foreign power manipulations...To imagine what it was like to be driven out of your home at gunpoint with fear for your life and dignity...

What more can I say than put forward my ideas for a solution where GCs would get back their property rights and we would share the island together as 2 equal communities but knowing the GCs will agree to this for me agreed partition is the only real solution and it looks like the one we are fast heading towards. You seem to forget that it was not only the GCs who ran away in fear the TC suffered the same drawn out fate from 1963 to 1974 but I do not hear you once argue their suffering and pain that's why for me you need to show more empathy towards your community first before you can claim to have any backbone.

VP...you are doing your best not to acknowledge what I am about...
I am all about promoting trust and understanding,empathy and compassion...These are what will save us,both GCs and TCs from cultural extinction...What would be the use of my repeating the official TC and Turkish line ???? More people from both sides need to show empathy with the other side. That way we will realise how much we both have suffered during this senseless conflict.And might even start to see how foreign interests played us against each other using the ethnicity and unthinking nationalism cards...

The more standard propaganda lines are thrown back and forth from both sides,the further away we get from respect and trust...Don't forget that I lived through the 63-69 period in Cyprus. I was lucky enough to be in the Nicosia enclave,which probably faired best during that time..But when I visited my village in Paphos in summer holidays I had to go throught the GC checkpoints and suffered many indignities in the process...I have told about them in the past...But I see no point repeating them non stop,since
I believe we need to put them to rest and move on...Times have changed.Cyprus is in the EU...The GCs no longer want Enosis. Eoka is dead and buried...Why do you still insist we are living in the 63-74 period????It makes you suspect that you are only intereseted in keeping the past misdeeds alive in order to justify the status quo and the Partition to come...And it also makes you one of the big obstacles on the way to a just and peaceful solution...

[BirKibrisli]

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

Birkibrisli

Quite right! I do not relinquish my standpoint that Turkey has had a gruesome past and the after effects are still pretty much with us.

Perhaps you are right that one asks for the impossible when requiring acknowledgement and apologies from Turkey. . .

. . . and you obviously sympathise with the plight of the Kurds and Armenians.

But why not the same for the GCs?

. . . the numbers may be different but on a relative scale who has suffered worse from Turkey's tyrannies . .

Come on,Phoenix...You are not off the hook yet...

I have often expressed my empathy for the plight of the GCs in Cyprus.
And I see no point in trying to compare injustices...Because each injustice is a crime against humanity,and each hurts equally no matter the numbers involved...

You are still to come up with some examples of injustices done to the TCs by the GCs in Cyprus since 1960s...Put your thinking cap on and try to show us you are capable of seeing the "enemy" as feeling, hurting human beings just like yourself...Your reward will come in this world... I am all ears and eyes...