Cyprus-Forum.com

[T_C]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

[phoenix]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

[BirKibrisli]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

[phoenix]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

I'm sorry about your mood, and I hope I did not contribute to it.

I do not need to empathise with the TCs or their plight. They are victims of their own misfortune and they are not so pathetic that they can't tell Turkey to sod off if they don't like the status quo.

I have not painted the GCs as whiter than white but sometimes you can't force an issue that doesn't exist.

You failed to come up with any tyrannies attributable to the GCs.

And so far no one has counter-claimed any of Turkey's atrocities.

Hence in conclusion . . . Turkey has erred plenty and has yet to own up and apologise.
That simple fact is what will prevent progress.

[BirKibrisli]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

I'm sorry about your mood, and I hope I did not contribute to it.

I do not need to empathise with the TCs or their plight. They are victims of their own misfortune and they are not so pathetic that they can't tell Turkey to sod off if they don't like the status quo.

I have not painted the GCs as whiter than white but sometimes you can't force an issue that doesn't exist.

You failed to come up with any tyrannies attributable to the GCs.

And so far no one has counter-claimed any of Turkey's atrocities.

Hence in conclusion . . . Turkey has erred plenty and has yet to own up and apologise.
That simple fact is what will prevent progress.

And I thought you were ready to capitulate,silly me...

You will have a long wait for Turkey to own upto anything and appologise...
If you don't believe me ask the Kurds or the Armenians...

[Viewpoint]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

At last some back bone, this person represents the majority of GCs and the problem we face if we are ever to be stupid enough to accept going back to the 1960 agreements, the safeguards have to be increased as per the Ap to ensure they are never allowed to even attempt anything stupid and pay a very heavy price if they ever do, eg recognition of the north state.

[phoenix]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

At last some back bone, this person represents the majority of GCs and the problem we face if we are ever to be stupid enough to accept going back to the 1960 agreements, the safeguards have to be increased as per the Ap to ensure they are never allowed to even attempt anything stupid and pay a very heavy price if they ever do, eg recognition of the north state.

Care to defend your slimy Tyrannical country against it's crimes . . . or are you going to join in with what Turks do best . . . THREATEN everyone.

[BirKibrisli]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

At last some back bone, this person represents the majority of GCs and the problem we face if we are ever to be stupid enough to accept going back to the 1960 agreements, the safeguards have to be increased as per the Ap to ensure they are never allowed to even attempt anything stupid and pay a very heavy price if they ever do, eg recognition of the north state.

I always had backbone,VP...
Just that you chose not to see it when it doesn't suit you.
I keep saying this: the problem will be solved when TCs empathise with the GCs and vice versa...That is why I am harder on my own side. This doesn't mean I do not see my own side's point of view...But it doesn't help advance trust and understanding if I kept repeating the TC point of view all the time...And I hope you too will allow yourself sometime to empathise with the GCs,the hundreds of thousand of innocent people who had to suffer for the mistakes of their leaders and foreign power manipulations...To imagine what it was like to be driven out of your home at gunpoint with fear for your life and dignity...And try to imgine why they might feel bitter about the TCs who are openly welcoming the army who dealt them such terrible blows...It will make you more credible and dignified,VP...I promise...

[miltiades]

......But only if we recognise and acknowledge those mistakes. Not if we take the example of Turkey and deny them.

What? Like you did above?

Oh the irony!!!!

Well you are just being true to your name, no irony there.

I'll like to hear what Birkibrisli says first before I capitulate.

Well...your post has proven what I said in my opening statement.
You are unable to empathise with the TCs and their plight...Hence
you are unable to move beyond bitterness and onto compassion...
You just tried to counter my points without really taking in what I was saying.You simply presented the GC view of the events,and convinced yourself you are right..Turks and TCs are evil,and the GCs are whiter than white...You see my friend,that is why we have not found a solution in all these years...

And that is why we do not deserve to be the masters of our own country.
They say that people deserve the government they get...In our case we have to ammend it to :" We deserve the occupiers that we got!!!
Sorry,I am not in a good mood...

At last some back bone, this person represents the majority of GCs and the problem we face if we are ever to be stupid enough to accept going back to the 1960 agreements, the safeguards have to be increased as per the Ap to ensure they are never allowed to even attempt anything stupid and pay a very heavy price if they ever do, eg recognition of the north state.

And who told you that he represents the opinions of the G/C majority anymore than you represent the opinions of the T/C majority.
Here we have a wise man , Bir , battling with the unwise , the lost souls , the brainwashed by propaganda individuals , both G/C and T/C , come to think of it you and Phoenix are pretty similar.

[miltiades]

Phoenix......it is easy to find faults with Turkey if you are a GC...

The test is...can you find 10 things wrong that the GCs did ,say in the 20th century?????Then you will be truly contributing to the understanding and respect between our communities...I dare you to put on your thinking cap and make a list...of 10 things GCs did which contributed to our present predicament...Come on ...rise up to the occassion like a true phoenix...

Weellll, I usually can't resist a challenge!

However, what are the odds that the GCs have erred 10 times in the 20th Century . . . ?
Sometimes it's impossible to balance an equation. Just because the Turks are Masters at atrocities it doesn't mean EVERYONE can rise to their heights (or lowered to their depths).

The respect between our communities can only come once Turkey has apologised for it's tyrannies and makes amends.

Then they can join our path . . . hand-in-hand

It's a tough challenge, Birkibrisli, it's tough! I'm thinking!

(I'll bet even you've struggled to get 10).

Phoenix...One of the major problems we have is our inability to empathise with the "other" side. When we fail to empathise,we cannot go to the next step which is compassion...Then we are stuck with bitterness and hatred,as you seem to be against all things Turkish and Turkish Cypriot...Without sticking the needle in you own body,you should not stick the arrow in others...So let me give you a hand...

Given our history and the presence of a large TC minority,it was a mistake for GCs to insist on Enosis...

Given they objected so much to the 1960 agreement,they should not have signed on the dotted line...

Given that they signed on the dotted line they should not come up with the Akritas Plan to try to achieve their Enosis by stealth...

Knowing that the TCs were looking for an excuse to break away in their own halfbaked dream of Taksim,Makarios should not have insisted on his 13 points the way he did...

They should've known better than responding to the provocations by the TMT,and turn what was a consititutional crisis into a full scale civil war...

They should've been more sensitive to the plight of the TCs during the 1964-74 period,realising that by ignoring them they would not just go away,they would walk into Turkey's arms...


After the invasion of 74,Makarios shoul'dve done much more to reunite his country,instead of playing the wounded stateman,and expecting the world to give him his Country back on a plate...

As the legitimate Government responsible for the whole island,the RoC government should've taken the initiative in acknowledging the massacres of the TCs by the Eoka militias,and offered appologies and restitution unreservedly and promptly...

More recently,the RoC government should've taken more visible measures to remove any symbols of Hellenism from Cyprus,from curbing the influence of the Church to abandoning the use of the Greek national anthem...

The RoC government should not sit back and wait for Turkey's EU negotiations to work in her favour,but make positive and decisive moves to attract more TCs (both living in Cyprus and the diaspora) to the Republic, to take advantage of the rift between the Erdogan government and the Turkish Military...

By refusing to seriously engage in peace talks with TCs and their present leader MA Talat, GCs are falling into Turkey's trap...Any negotiation with Turkey would only be done from a position of weakness,as the status quo gives Turkey the upper hand...Turkey will never settle for a solution which is less advantages than the status quo...

By dragging on the peace negotiations,and relying on outside influences to help achieve a just and lasting solution,the RoC govertnment is only strengthening the forces of Partition,hence guaranteeing that no solution would even be found which will protect the interests of the majority of Cypriots...

I have not counted how many mistakes I came up with...but I can tell you Phoenix this is all from the top of my head...Now tell me which of these mistakes you do not agree with and why???

Great post Bir, well done.

Bir , I entirely agree with your views expressed and I commend you .