Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Phoenix......it is easy to find faults with Turkey if you are a GC...

The test is...can you find 10 things wrong that the GCs did ,say in the 20th century?????Then you will be truly contributing to the understanding and respect between our communities...I dare you to put on your thinking cap and make a list...of 10 things GCs did which contributed to our present predicament...Come on ...rise up to the occassion like a true phoenix...

Thanks Bir,
if he did , i wouldn't respond him stupidly. Turkey is a devil and they are angels.

[denizaksulu]

What can the "people" of the US and UK do? Should they overthrow their government?? The fact that the powers that be haven't taken a blind bit of notice of what it's people thinks shows they don't care.

We are talking about the past though folks!!! I am talking about admitting wrong doing in the past. I am talking about Turkey EVER admitting that they have done something wrong.
I'm not talking about the present and the UK/US.

The Ottomans were forced out and the new Republic of Turkey was created. Why would Turkey/ Republic of Turkey acknowledge something 'allegedly' carried out by the Ottomans? Bear in mind the war situation in the Eastern provinces at the time; the Russian encroachment into the Turkish heartland and the help they received from the Ottoman Armenians, the uncontrollable Kurdish tribes etc. It is a folly to make these allegations without the facts of the events as a whole being looked into impartially.

[twinkle]

Karma, that's a whole new thread. Most of the world has made their thoughts and beliefs known as to what is going on in Afganistan and Iraq yet, the governments choose to ignore what it's people want and like a dictatorial parent continues to advance into these countries. The armies are fighting thess wars on the orders of their governments. The people of the US/UK haven't gone into these countries and are killing civilians. That's the difference. Ask a regular Joe on the street to go to Iraq and kill and they'd say no! Most of these crimes against humanity in the past were carried out by ordinary people turning on their neighbours!

[karma]

What can the "people" of the US and UK do? Should they overthrow their government?? The fact that the powers that be haven't taken a blind bit of notice of what it's people thinks shows they don't care.

We are talking about the past though folks!!! I am talking about admitting wrong doing in the past. I am talking about Turkey EVER admitting that they have done something wrong.
I'm not talking about the present and the UK/US.

The Ottomans were forced out and the new Republic of Turkey was created. Why would Turkey/ Republic of Turkey acknowledge something 'allegedly' carried out by the Ottomans? Bear in mind the war situation in the Eastern provinces at the time; the Russian encroachment into the Turkish heartland and the help they received from the Ottoman Armenians, the uncontrollable Kurdish tribes etc. It is a folly to make these allegations without the facts of the events as a whole being looked into impartially.

Exactly, then Italy also should apologize for whtever happened in Roman Empire period..so ridiculous...double standards..

[Nikitas]

Hmmm, Roman Empire etc. Not an accurate parallel. More to the point would be post war Germany. The Federal Republic recognised the misdeeds of the Third Reich and did two simple things- it apologised and made reparations. The prestige of the German Federal Republic did not suffer, one could say the opposite has happened, the prestige and international stature of Germany increased.

[denizaksulu]

Hmmm, Roman Empire etc. Not an accurate parallel. More to the point would be post war Germany. The Federal Republic recognised the misdeeds of the Third Reich and did two simple things- it apologised and made reparations. The prestige of the German Federal Republic did not suffer, one could say the opposite has happened, the prestige and international stature of Germany increased.

Easier said than done. Amongst christian states and the German diaspora in the states and other European contries it is an admirable thing to happen. We are talking A moslem state v rest of the world here. Whilst the 'Crusader' mentality prevails what chance has Turkey got? You can still see it re: EU.

[Jerry]

Hmmm, Roman Empire etc. Not an accurate parallel. More to the point would be post war Germany. The Federal Republic recognised the misdeeds of the Third Reich and did two simple things- it apologised and made reparations. The prestige of the German Federal Republic did not suffer, one could say the opposite has happened, the prestige and international stature of Germany increased.

Easier said than done. Amongst christian states and the German diaspora in the states and other European contries it is an admirable thing to happen. We are talking A moslem state v rest of the world here. Whilst the 'Crusader' mentality prevails what chance has Turkey got? You can still see it re: EU.

Deniz, Nikitas's comparison is exactly right. The "Crusader" mentality still exists because Turkey refuses to accept modern Western standards (you could say Iraq is an exception - but that's a differnt issue) and you can still see it in the EU partly because of Turkey's attitude in not recognising the ROC as the EU requests. If the rest of the world is against Turkey, as you say, isn't it likely that Turkey needs to change rather than the rest of the world.

[Kifeas]

What can the "people" of the US and UK do? Should they overthrow their government?? The fact that the powers that be haven't taken a blind bit of notice of what it's people thinks shows they don't care.

We are talking about the past though folks!!! I am talking about admitting wrong doing in the past. I am talking about Turkey EVER admitting that they have done something wrong.
I'm not talking about the present and the UK/US.

The Ottomans were forced out and the new Republic of Turkey was created. Why would Turkey/ Republic of Turkey acknowledge something 'allegedly' carried out by the Ottomans? Bear in mind the war situation in the Eastern provinces at the time; the Russian encroachment into the Turkish heartland and the help they received from the Ottoman Armenians, the uncontrollable Kurdish tribes etc. It is a folly to make these allegations without the facts of the events as a whole being looked into impartially.

Ooooh really???

But, don’t you want the GCs, not just to acknowledge, but in fact to be punished for what the American CIA sponsored Greek Junta tried to do in Cyprus in 1974? Don’t you try to blame the coup and the attempted union of Cyprus with Greece on the Greek Cypriots, so that you justify why your “motherland” should have had the right to invade, occupy and usurp for your TC blue eyes, the 36% of Cyprus, and gift it to you after ethnically cleansing the indigenous GC inhabitants from there? Now it is not Turkey that did the genocide against the Armenians, but it is only the Ottoman Turkey! Well, don’t you know that Turkey (Republic of Turkey,) with the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923, happily accepted the legal and political residual of the dissolved Ottoman Empire, as its formal successor, together with all the benefits but also the obligations and responsibilities that this was entailing?

[repulsewarrior]

yes, but my point is that past (years ago) mistakes have been admitted by most countries. Germany, Britain, US.....why not Turkey?

Why not Greeks against Turkish Cypriots ?

What does this mean?

Who are you refering to?

I imagine that you mean grecophones from Greece.

...or are Turkisk Cypriots Turks?

...so why not just say Greeks against Turks, if you mean this something else, as though Turkish Cypriots account for as much as Greek Cypriots, in this bigger hatred which has swallowed us whole and left us to be a proxy.

or...are you implying as a Turkish Cypriot that you think that your counterparts who are living on this island are some kind of nigger that you put in a box, that, we all look alike, think alike, and are ignorant? sure sounds like the kind of racism that had black men hanging from trees in the '60's, back in the goodold USA.

now is a good time to reflect, and to be a little more sensitive.

Turkey needs to change. We all do.

[phoenix]

Phoenix......it is easy to find faults with Turkey if you are a GC...

The test is...can you find 10 things wrong that the GCs did ,say in the 20th century?????Then you will be truly contributing to the understanding and respect between our communities...I dare you to put on your thinking cap and make a list...of 10 things GCs did which contributed to our present predicament...Come on ...rise up to the occassion like a true phoenix...

Weellll, I usually can't resist a challenge!

However, what are the odds that the GCs have erred 10 times in the 20th Century . . . ?
Sometimes it's impossible to balance an equation. Just because the Turks are Masters at atrocities it doesn't mean EVERYONE can rise to their heights (or lowered to their depths).

The respect between our communities can only come once Turkey has apologised for it's tyrannies and makes amends.

Then they can join our path . . . hand-in-hand

It's a tough challenge, Birkibrisli, it's tough! I'm thinking!

(I'll bet even you've struggled to get 10).