Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

An indigenous population who were there before the Greeks. What an interesting statement! One must hand it to our ancestors, they were survivors!

And on a more humorous not, now I feel really old!

[phoenix]

Ethnicity? This is almost certainly wrong on genetic grounds. The frequent appeals to both communities for bone marrow donors show Cypriots share more genes with each other than with the populations of either Greece or Turkey. We look the same, for goodness sake!

Apologies to Get Real! for the sweeping statement that the "gene thing" was wrong. It was the example for bone marrow transplants where tissue typing is significant (and tied to genetics) that was not the most appropriate to use to justify his observation that we share more genes and that we look the same.

Get Real! YOU ARE CORRECT!

If you look at individual genes they share a degree of relatedness specific to that gene only. Another gene would relate completely differently. This cannot therefore, be used to put people into different ethnic groups.

Human DNA is 99.9% identical. Only 8% of the 0.1% has a racial distribution and it is in the type of DNA known as JUNK DNA. Junk DNA protects us from environmental agents.

Genome variation research does NOT support the existence of Human races.

On a small island like Cyprus you are more likely to see convergent genetics where traits appear because of environmental constraints hence Thalassaemia. These similarities or differences do not give rise to meaningful data to determine the origin of said individual.

Anyone wishing to impose racial criteria from DNA data is more interested in Eugenics than Ethnicity.

Our major individual differences are due to Nurture not Nature.

Once again GR!s point about our genetic similarities is valid and meaningful.

SORRY

[phoenix]

Get real! The genes thing is wrong. As Humans we all share the same genes. There are only variants due to individual differences.

As far as I know, there exists a specific strain of the genetic disorder beta thalassemia which is only found among Cypriots and this particular strain of the disease is not encountered in either Greece of Turkey. I haveheard that this is incontravertable scientific evidence that Cypriots derive from the same stock.
I have often thought about this fact, because mixed marriages have been very rare in the history of Cyprus. Were there perhaps far more linobambakis than people think? I wonder if there extramarital relationships going on involving members of both communities, and if this resulted in the birth of a child, everybody simply assumed that the child's father was the mother's husband, rather than her illicit lover. I don't know how it happened, but the scientific evidence points towards the shared genetic makeup of the people of this island.
I seem to recall hearing a rumour that Rauf Denktash once commissioned a DNA study to prove that Turkish Cypriots were pure members of the "Turkish race" and shared no genetic traits with Greek Cypriots. When the results showed that the reverse was true, he apparently kept the results to himself. Is this true?

Tim please see my apology to GR!

All meaningful studies confirm our similarities.

If Denktash commissioned such a study than he falls into the category of those wishing to perpetrate Eugenics and on this basis alone he should be locked up (and castrated!).

[The Cypriot]

Need to be Greek?

Unlike people from other nations, the majority of our compatriots – those of the Orthodox Christian persuasion – seem to prefer to be considered ‘Greek’ or ‘Greek Cypriot’, as opposed to simply ‘Cypriot’. (Though in their own language they would proudly declare themselves ‘Gibrei’.)

We think there are a number of reasons for this need to be Greek.

First, security and identity. After centuries of foreign oppression, Cypriots have understandably wanted to affirm an attachment to what they perceive to be a greater, more glorious, stronger grouping. Now of course, at long last, we are attached to a wider community, where Cypriots – of all persuasions – can be European.

Then there’s religion. But it should be noted that the Church of Cyprus, like that of Russia, is actually autocephalous within the family of Orthodox Churches. Indeed Cyprus was the first Roman province to convert to Christianity.

What about language? After all, most of us speak Greek (or something akin to it). But do Americans regard themselves as English? Do Austrians want to be seen as Germans? And weren’t all Cypriots happy to speak the principal vernacular of Cyprus before division took root?

How about culture? But if we’re honest there’s little to distinguish traditional ‘Greek Cypriot’ and ‘Turkish Cypriot’ culture and values. (OK, one group may eat less pork for religious reasons, but then some people ‘go the whole hog’ these days and become vegetarians!)

Ethnicity? This is almost certainly wrong on genetic grounds. The frequent appeals to both communities for bone marrow donors show Cypriots share more genes with each other than with the populations of either Greece or Turkey. We look the same, for goodness sake!

History? But which history do we go for? Cyprus has been inhabited for over 9,000 years and has been occupied by almost every significant power in the region and beyond. The island hasn’t been part of a Greek state for the best part of a thousand years – that’s if you count the Byzantine Empire, which at the time saw itself as Roman. Perhaps it’s time to move on and be ourselves.

Finally, we come to nationalism – a need to emphasise our supposed difference from Cypriots with a Muslim background. But doesn’t needing to be ‘Greek’ cause our Muslim compatriots to need to be ‘Turkish’? And if some of us must look to Greece, aren’t others forced to look to Turkey? But what if we were both simply ‘Cypriot’ and looked to Europe and the world?

Will we ever learn that only the need to be Cypriot can truly unite us and our homeland? And isn’t unity what we all want?

There. By now, people on both sides are probably upset. Unless perhaps, like us, they’re on the Cypriot side.

http://www.cypriotacademy.com/needtobegreek.html

Thanks for sharing this Get Real! The Academy welcomes your support.

[Get Real!]

Apologies to Get Real! for the sweeping statement that the "gene thing" was wrong.

That article was taken from the site just below it...

[Get Real!]

Thanks for sharing this Get Real! The Academy welcomes your support.

No problemo my good man... my congratulations for your excellent site.

[denizaksulu]

Here is a source relating to my previous point about thalassemia. It comes from chapter 11 of the book entilted “Race Gallery” by Marek Kohn, an academic study into the way claims about race are used for political purposes.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/marek.kohn/seacoast.html

This passage describes a scene in a BBC television documentary. The Sir Walter in question is the geneticist Sir Walter Bodmer.

"Before Sir Walter leaves the metropolis, however, he has to attend to some pressing business. He must establish that the study of genetic diversity need not be tainted by racism, and indeed may oppose it. He is seen in a Greek Orthodox church speaking to Father Andreas and his son Father Constantine, two Cypriot priests. Father Andreas reveals that he lost two other sons to thalassaemia, the hereditary blood disease which resembles sickle cell anaemia, but affects Mediterranean rather than black African people. Sir Walter tells his hosts that different types of mutation cause the disease in different areas. Greek and Turkish Cypriots share a thalassaemia variant with each other, but not with people from Greece or Turkey.
"Couldn't you prove biologically that we are descended from Ancient Greeks?" asks Father Constantine. Sir Walter replies that the common mutation implies a common descent for all Cypriots, from an indigenous population who were there before the Greeks: "From a biological point of view, you are one people."
This is received with wry amusement. "It is news to us!" observes Father Andreas. "Maybe you can solve our political problems as well," suggests Father Constantine. "I hope so," answers Sir Walter, "because it's so common that people have a common biological heritage, and yet it's the cultural difference on top that causes them to have the conflict." He seems to imply that biological truth is more fundamental than cultural truth, not just to biologists but to society as a whole."

I am hoping to make a constructive point, here, rather than create havoc!

Thanks for the link, Tim. I hope people will read this with a scientific mind and not be affected by politics. That will be the hard bit, wont it GR?

[phoenix]

Apologies to Get Real! for the sweeping statement that the "gene thing" was wrong.

That article was taken from the site just below it...

Yes, on reflection it would have been a real scoop to catch you making errors . . . I jumped the gun with my enthusiasm.

Perhaps "The Academy" need to sort out that paragraph.

[denizaksulu]

Tim,

Murat and Eric and VP will be afer you. Want to buy a cheap flakjacket?

LOL

Nikitas

how much for a dozen?


Yes please,

[Get Real!]

Apologies to Get Real! for the sweeping statement that the "gene thing" was wrong.

That article was taken from the site just below it...

Yes, on reflection it would have been a real scoop to catch you making errors . . . I jumped the gun with my enthusiasm.

Fat chance! Been debating online longer than anybody else I'm sure... since 1988/89

Perhaps "The Academy" need to sort out that paragraph.

Please go through that and using your expertise see if you can assist there with a better paragraph and let me know or talk to "The Cypriot"! Thanks.