Cyprus-Forum.com

[Saint Jimmy]

Saint Jimmy dont you feel its the only way forward because we Cypriots can break world records at arguing and counter arguing about anything.

No, my feeling is that once a solution is arrived at, and accepted by both sides, even by 50%+1 vote, then (almost) everyone will just accept it and start looking at how they can adapt their own lives to it, instead of the other way around.
I think it will surprise us all how theoretical all this arguing is, and how it will ultimately prove an exercise in futility, when a less than perfect agreement is reached, and people just pick it up and keep walking.

[Viewpoint]

Why do you keep going back to the plan, its been rejected for one reason or another we are trying to respect your decision although we feel let down. The fact is that although Turkish Cypriots took the courageous step of voting yes in the referendum, they have come to realize from the barrage of arguements from the south, the negative stance of Mr Papadop government towards Turkish Cypriots (believe me its gotten to hate levels) that maybe they got off lightly and that reunification would have left them in a position they could never tollerate. The TRUST element towards Greek Cypriots has diminished rapidly in the North since the referendum and it will be very difficult to re-establish. There are many Turkish Cypriots who whole heartidly supported reunification but now they are saying we tried but it didnt work lets look at division as the alerternative.

[Agios Amvrosios]

There are many Turkish Cypriots who whole heartidly supported reunification but now they are saying we tried but it didnt work lets look at division as the alerternative.

Bizonality, qualified democracy, ethnic purity to me that is half hearted reunification not "whole hearted" reunification.

[Piratis]

Viewpoint, you voted "yes" for the disguised partition. How much courage did that take???

[Saint Jimmy]

I did not mention the plan (here!). I'm talking about any possible solution that might be agreed upon in the future, which has to be imperfect, by definition.
And yes, there are some of those GCs that you described. I'm just not one of them! I still believe (well, 'hope' is the right word) in reunification, and I will never agree to partition, although I find no rational reasoning for my opposition - I suppose it's only sentimental.

[Viewpoint]

Dear Saint Jimmy,
I applaud your optimism but I dont share it, cant you see the game Mr Papadop is playing, hes playing for time so that Turkey will have to sign Customs agreement so he can score a goal, and declare to all Greek Cypriots that i made Turkey recognise us so that he will have more leverage if and when he decides to return to the negotaiting table. For gods sake Turkey will sign that document when its ready and declare non recognition like a good carpet salesman, no problem no embassy no ports no air space no withdrawal of troops etc......no recognition

[insan]

Suppose a seperate state was established in the North on %18 of the land of Cyprus; of course it would be allowed to put restrictions upon right to settlement and naturalization of foreign residents. Otherwise how long would it take the other Europeans to "invade" other member state that has only about 2500km square land?

How big is Luxembourg?

You will not have to give citizenships to other Europeans, but you will not be able to restrict their right to settle or work anywhere they want. And you will have to treat them nicely as well. Thats why is called European Union. And when it will become a European federation, then it will be even more integrated.

"As regards the free movement of persons the Court has delivered three rulings concerning the public service exemption under Article 48(4) EC in Case C-173/94 Commission v Belgium, Case C-473/93 Commission v Luxembourg and Case C-290/94 Commission v Hellenic Republic delivered on 2 July 1996. The three cases concerned access to a number of posts in areas including research; education; health; inland transport; posts and telecommunications; water, gas and electricity distribution; and music. In conformity with its previous case law, the Court pointed out that in determining whether or not posts fall within the scope of application of Article 48(4), it is necessary to consider whether or not they typify the specific activities of the public sector, in so far as they involve the exercise of power conferred by public law and responsibility for safeguarding the general interests of the State or of other public bodies. Therefore, before deciding whether or not Article 48(4) is applicable, it is necessary to take into consideration the nature of the tasks and responsibilities inherent in the post. The Court considered that the Commission was competent to exclude entire areas from the Article 48(4) derogation and that it was not necessary for it to examine the posts concerned on a case by case basis. Although Luxembourg argued that, in view of the size of the country and its specific demographic situation, it was necessary for teachers to be Luxembourg nationals in order to transmit traditional values, the Court refused to exclude primary school teachers from the scope of Article 48. That refusal was not shaken by considerations relating to the preservation of national identity in a demographic situation as specific as that prevailing in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. "


http://www.eipa.nl/Eipascope/96/3/4.htm

[Viewpoint]

Dear Piratis
Dont just dismiss our decision in that belittling fashion it was a difficult decision for all Cypriots, the future of our children good or bad depended on it.

[Saint Jimmy]

Dear Saint Jimmy,
I applaud your optimism but I dont share it, cant you see the game Mr Papadop is playing, hes playing for time so that Turkey will have to sign Customs agreement so he can score a goal, and declare to all Greek Cypriots that i made Turkey recognise us so that he will have more leverage if and when he decides to return to the negotaiting table. For gods sake Turkey will sign that document when its ready and declare non recognition like a good carpet salesman, no problem no embassy no ports no air space no withdrawal of troops etc......no recognition

Hmmm... this is another issue, though...
T-Pap is playing for time, I agree. However, I have said many times, that, much as I disagree with him, I cannot consider him a stupid or vain man.
Making a fool of himself, creating enemies the world over, for what? 'To score a goal'? No, no, no... If we are led by such a man, there is no point in discussing anything, in here or wherever.
My feeling is that he is playing for time, (and making a fool of himself, and creating enemies) because he has an actual strategy laid out in his head (which, presumably, is worth the price he is currently paying for his decisions/actions/behavior); one that will turn a lot of heads, in due time. And 'due time', in my opinion, is some time (perhaps even a few months) after Turkey signs the Protocol. His inexplicable insistence on that date, his annoying refusal to budge until that happens, leads me to think that when he finally gets the damn thing, he'll have a use for it, and get things moving.
I cannot get myself to believe that he is that short-sighted! If he is trying to buy time, and Turkey signs the damn thing, will he then be out on the prowl for another excuse to buy time? I just don't see it.

[Viewpoint]

Mr Papadop has under estimated Erdogan government on a number of occassions so I feel he will get the customs agreement with conditions yet he will hail this as a recognition victory over Turkey to gain support from his people, and declare that if Turkey recognizes the Roc then automatically the TRNC is unrecognized and he gains lost crediblity and support from EU to apply pressure on Turkey to accept his demands in relation to a "viable and just" solution we hear so much about. If he doesnt get what he wants then he will return to veto issue, how many was it 64 times????