Cyprus-Forum.com

[Agios Amvrosios]

I know very little about the Maastrict Treaty but if you(TC's) were granted partition (a separate state) which I would assume would be in the EU then you may not achieve the lonf term result you desire. Id est an ethnically pure state were only TC can vote.

After a brief period (you will not be able to prevent GC as citizens of the EU from freely moving around in the break away state, voting, becoming candidates in elections and generally enjoying basic democratic EU freedoms:

Article 8a

Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to reside and move freely within the territory of the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in this treaty and by the measures adopted to give it effect.
The council may adopt provisions with a view to facilitating the rights referred to in paragraph 1; save as otherwise provided in this Treaty, the Council shall act unanimously on a proposal from the Commission after obtaining the assent of the European Parliament.


Article 8b

Every citizen of the Union residing in a Member State of which he is not a national shall have the right to vote and stand as a candidate in municipal elections in the member state in which he resides, under the same conditions as nationals of that State. This right shall be exercised subject to detailed arrangements to be adopted before 31 December 1994 by the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after consulting the European Parliament; these arrangements may provide for derogation's where warranted by problems specific to a member state.
Without prejudice to Article 1 38(3) and to the provisions adopted for its implementation, every citizen of the Union residing in a Member State of which he is not a national shall have the right to vote and stand as a candidate in elections to the European Parliament in the member state in which he resides, under the same conditions as nationals of that State. This right shall be exercised subject to detailed arrangements to be adopted before 31 December 1993 by the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after consulting the European Parliament; these arrangements may provide for derogation's where warranted by problems specific to a member state.

I mean, then your "political equality" and whatever else could not be indefinitely guaranteed.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Thats fine then. About the percentage I already said that it can not be more than 18%. do you agree for 18%? (The TC population in 74). If you don't this is just another dead end path.

How can you equate the population total to the amount of land, why not just look at title deeds of land owned by each community in 1974, I think this figure is around 21% (im not 100% sure about this figure) add to this compensation for buildings built by TCs from 1974 to 2005 vs compensation to GCs for properties remaining in 21%.

Which area do you think we should have Kyrenia and surrounding areas???

[Piratis]

The fact is that while the whole Europe is uniting, we are trying to split hairs because while a bunch of Cypriots are not afraid to be dominated by half a billion Europeans, they are afraid that one community will dominate the other!!

In any case, I said before that if we agree on an 18%-82% partition, in the end we will be more united than the Annan plan, since EU countries are more united between them (and they would become even more united in the future) than the two states in Cyprus would be according to the Annan plan.

[Viewpoint]

Northern Cyprus being totally independent would decide if it wished to work towards the EU as you are aware we are not at the current time in line with the aquis . The Turkish Cypriots would go to the polls and vote on whether we wish to go into EU or not.

[Piratis]

why not just look at title deeds of land owned by each community in 1974, I think this figure is around 21%

Actually that figure is around 12.5% plus 3% Evkaf so around 16% for TCs. In any case I agree for 18%, which was your population. but if you will argue about this then as I said is just another dead end.

Partition has been the dream of TCs for decades, but not their right. Now personally I can accept it (and I believe many GCs) but only if you accept to keep not more than 18%. I believe in case of partition this would be the most "fair", thats why I said it. I didn't just say a number so we will bargain.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

The fact is that while the whole Europe is uniting, we are trying to split hairs because while a bunch of Cypriots are not afraid to be dominated by half a billion Europeans, they are afraid that one community will dominate the other!!

Doesnt that say anything to you????

[insan]

Parliament; these arrangements may provide for derogation's where warranted by problems specific to a member state.

I mean, then your "political equality" and whatever else could not be indefinitely guaranteed.

Hi Agios Amvrosios.

It seems to me that "political equality" and whatever else could be definitely guaranteed...

Suppose a seperate state was established in the North on %18 of the land of Cyprus; of course it would be allowed to put restrictions upon right to settlement and naturalization of foreign residents. Otherwise how long would it take the other Europeans to "invade" other member state that has only about 2500km square land?

[Piratis]

Doesnt that say anything to you????

What it tels to me is that it would be crazy to accept a plan that would make the north part of my (supposedly) own country less mine than any other part of EU. In a fewer words: unification yes, disguised partition no.

[Agios Amvrosios]

After a period we will will just go and buy the whole place.

Maybe your idea is a prefered option for the GCs becuase the United Cyprus thing would basically set you up like oligarchs.

Lipon agreed.

[Piratis]

Suppose a seperate state was established in the North on %18 of the land of Cyprus; of course it would be allowed to put restrictions upon right to settlement and naturalization of foreign residents. Otherwise how long would it take the other Europeans to "invade" other member state that has only about 2500km square land?

How big is Luxembourg?

You will not have to give citizenships to other Europeans, but you will not be able to restrict their right to settle or work anywhere they want. And you will have to treat them nicely as well. Thats why is called European Union. And when it will become a European federation, then it will be even more integrated.