Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

even your mama Turka will NEVER let you slip away from her with a recognised state

Pyro, Turkey cannot afford to allow any recognition to the "TRNC". It is a very simple case of Arithmetic's. The need of 125,000 Turkish Cypriots to the need of 70 Million Turks when faced with the choice, regarding her EU bid.

I would not be surprised if Turkey sends messages ahead of Talat's visits to countries for recognition, telling them to ignore Talat.

The case of recognition is a dead one! No country in the world will take a step visa vie the affairs and status quo of an EU member state, before and without the EU doing so first! No country is so stupid to poke its nose into something from which not only it has no direct interest, but in addition it will bring additional problems onto its "head" by coming into confrontation and conflict with the EU! Just look at Azerbaijan and Bangladesh! If it was so easy and simple, these two countries would have taken the step, long ago! Regardless of this, recognition by mere 2-3 third world countries does not constitute the establishment of a recognized and sovereign nation-state entity, as a subject of international law! For this to exist, it requires recognition by the UN and its organs!

Now, the EU or any of its member states cannot change their position on the issue of recognition, without RoC consensus, because both the EU and its member states are bound by the treaty of accession of the 10 new member states, signed in April 2003! This treaty is now part of the EU aqui, and can only altered if all co-signatory parties give their consensus! As it is well know, with the treaty of accession, the EU and its member states accept and recognize the sovereignty of the RoC all over the island, and that Cyprus as a whole is de jure part of the EU under the de jure sovereignty of the RoC!

It is nice to have "dreams" and "ambitions," but unfortunately for some TCs, some things can only exist as a part of mere wishful thinking! Turkey occupies 36% of Cyprus, using the TCs as a proxy; however, the GCs occupy the whole of Cyprus, using the RoC as a proxy! Furthermore, Turkey aspires to become an EU member state, and Cyprus holds a veto right!

Really Kifeas what will recognition change? although a goal for many TCs we are fully aware that it will not happen in the near future, your track record suits us right down to the ground as you havent got a chance in hell of finding a solution due to your entrenched views about a solution which even with "legality" on your side has not got you any closer to goals. When will you realize that your policies will never pay dividends as we will not yield to your demands and the international arena see and understand that this problem is no one sided, who knows in 2 3 4 generations down he line the north will gradually be upgraded towards recognition dependent on your consistent lack of vision or flexibility to act European and compromise towards a BBF poitical equality solution as recommended by the UN and international community, keep up the good work.

What the hell are our policies??? We are the ONLY ones who try for a solution all these years. For 30 years we had Denktash who was just saying NO. Now we have Talat who thinks we will surrender to a Plan with which the long standing revenge seekers the Anglo-americans tried to surrender us.

All we are looking is for an honourable Federal structure.

It is Turkey and your leaders who unfortunately can do nothing against Turkeys will, that force us to play this game of "who lasts longer takes it all". Mind you there is a possibility we (the GCs) will lose it all. There is an equal possibility you will end nothing but a minority. In fact the way you go selling our lands you will become smaller minority than the British. I said it many times in this forum, unfortunately this is how the Cyprob is going to be solved.Anyway you look at it it will be unfair.

[Eric dayi]

Some times some peoples need help.

You are damn right there, miltiades and his "Cypriot" pals, the poor lost souls, can use all the help they can get. Do you know a shrink who can help them?

Oops sorry I was talking about you.
I am sorry you make mistake.

No, I didn't make a mistake, I just agreed with you that some people do need
help and named those who do and asked your help in finding a shrink for them.

[Boumboulina]

Some times some peoples need help.

You are damn right there, miltiades and his "Cypriot" pals, the poor lost souls, can use all the help they can get. Do you know a shrink who can help them?

Oops sorry I was talking about you.
I am sorry you make mistake.

No, I didn't make a mistake, I just agreed with you that some people do need
help and named those who do and asked your help in finding a shrink for them.

You wake me up. What you want? What you need sink for?

[humanist]

VP

Do you know I am not against you fighting your own corner and I hope you get somewhere but I can see you will never get what you want due to the reality of the vast chasm that exists between our communities. You are still in denial and need more time to realize your fight is futile. The best solution taking into account that we have not been able to find a compromise for 44 years is to go our separate ways, accepting the consequences.

VP, as I said in another post, although I disagree with your partition views, there is something I really like about you, even though I do not know you at all really. You could be pulling funny faces evry time you read one of my posts, but that is irelevant I guess. I get a sense you are a nice guy really, just like all other Cypriots on here wanting what you beieve is right.

However, the reality is we have not seen partition in the past 44 years and we have not seen the economic embargo beeing lifted in the past 33 years. We have not seen recognition of trnc either. My feeling is that the status quo will remain until such time you and I both dead and then future generations after years of social integration and acceptance of each other will revert back to what it used to be, at least just prior to 1974.

What we have seen is that the majority of TC's fed up with living in poverty and other reasons voted yes to the AP and given the opportunity again they will vote yes again.

Depsite reports form TC press that most people are re-thinking the yes vote and unification I think, it is inevitable due to the large numbers of settlers in the north and the poverty faced . Please at least acknowledge that if the trnc financial situation as better there would not be 12,000 people working in the RoC.

It is only my belief that young people assimilating today will not care about living in a greek speaking Cypriot dominated society and GC's will not care living in among TC's. I hope that future generations of Cypriots will have learnt from the past by then and create a better future, And if I don't see it in this life time well I can only hope that the next one I come back as a TC to learn from my past.

Hope you have a good day.

Hop

[Viewpoint]

humanist

VP, as I said in another post, although I disagree with your partition views, there is something I really like about you, even though I do not know you at all really. You could be pulling funny faces evry time you read one of my posts, but that is irelevant I guess. I get a sense you are a nice guy really, just like all other Cypriots on here wanting what you beieve is right.

I want the best for everyone and if that mean partition then I am all for it. On this forum we are prime examples of why unification even if reached on paper would never be allowed to take root and flourish as both sides have their own needs and wants some right some wrong. The bottom line is that I have arrived as a time where I feel that chasm is to wide to bridge and for the sake of bringing this long out standing issue to a close we should pay the price and go our separate ways.

However, the reality is we have not seen partition in the past 44 years and we have not seen the economic embargo beeing lifted in the past 33 years. We have not seen recognition of trnc either. My feeling is that the status quo will remain until such time you and I both dead and then future generations after years of social integration and acceptance of each other will revert back to what it used to be, at least just prior to 1974.

Physical partition occurred in 1974 humanist, whether you want to acknowledge it or not is up to you but there is a border and we have a state which functions in the TRNC. I agree with you that we will not a solution in our lifetime or our children in the context of unification. We TCs have learned to live the way we are today and can do so for many more years to come. As to reverting back to how it was I doubt this very much as for us those times were bad and psychologically no TCs want to go backwards they would rather accept the current status quo and proceed on their own even if this mean assimilating with Turkey which is the price we have to pay for our sins.

What we have seen is that the majority of TC's fed up with living in poverty and other reasons voted yes to the AP and given the opportunity again they will vote yes again.

Poverty? you have been fed the wrong information and I invite you to visit the TRNC and make up your own mind, go to the restaurants and bars and look at the homes and number of cars people have, we may not have the posh pavements or street lighting the south has but we have everything else. We voted YES to AP mainly due to the EU factor and bringing this saga to end but the GC NO hit the TCs in face hard and confirmed they do not want to compromise but to get what they want and nothing else, this in turn hardened TC views to a degree that even if a new plan was put on the table TCs would vote NO out of spite and retaliation for the last rejection. You would be lucky if you got 30% of the vote if there was ever a next time, its not like its a regular recurrence once in 33 years.

Depsite reports form TC press that most people are re-thinking the yes vote and unification I think, it is inevitable due to the large numbers of settlers in the north and the poverty faced . Please at least acknowledge that if the trnc financial situation as better there would not be 12,000 people working in the RoC.

I do acknowledge that the south is giving employment to a number of TCs but these people are only filling in where you need foreign workers mainly on building sites doing manual labor, can you imagine university graduates mixing cement and feeling degraded by working for what is in fact classed as our "enemy", something like the Jews working for the Germans because the Germans did not all the Jews to open their own businesses, this is very similar if you allowed the economy to develop under no isolation then these people would not have to go south and you would not feel obliged to employ them or do them any favors.

It is only my belief that young people assimilating today will not care about living in a greek speaking Cypriot dominated society and GC's will not care living in among TC's. I hope that future generations of Cypriots will have learnt from the past by then and create a better future, And if I don't see it in this life time well I can only hope that the next one I come back as a TC to learn from my past.

I have tried to explain this to you before the young generation are being effected negatively by the south and their policies to keep them isolated via cultural and sports events, they to read newspapers and see for themselves the GC attitude of we own the whole island you should just accept your fate as a minority bowing down to us... the views have hardened and no TC youth feel part of the "RoC" nor do they want to go live in a GC state, unless the south take drastic measures to win these people over they will be faced with even more hardened views as these people will have first hand knowledge of GC arrogance and attitudes towards accepting the TC community as equals.

[humanist]

Thanks for a great post VP. Each time I do understand a little more thanx. Yes I agree the youth don't feel part of the RoC thats because they are not presently. My understanding is that a number of young TC children attend schools in the RoC, is that not right? Those young people will eventually form friendships with peers and more interaction will begin to take place therefore confidence and trust will naturally take place. Lets face it, It is probably closer to go to the beach in Kerinia than any other town from Lefkosia. I am not trying to change your views by this but just simply expressing what will happen in Cyprus in ten years or so years. Whether a solution or not. Once you begin to have teriary education exchange in the so called other side the more the social domain in cyprus will take place and more social interaction will occur. And as much as I do not value a class based society the each class with its own structures will enhance relations. For example if you love the symphony and you know that a great artist from the Turkish community is perfrming are you not going to travel to Kyrnia to hear them perform? I doubt it. if you really love the balet and its is your country an hour and a half away will you not go?

[Viewpoint]

Thanks for a great post VP. Each time I do understand a little more thanx. Yes I agree the youth don't feel part of the RoC thats because they are not presently. My understanding is that a number of young TC children attend schools in the RoC, is that not right? Those young people will eventually form friendships with peers and more interaction will begin to take place therefore confidence and trust will naturally take place. Lets face it, It is probably closer to go to the beach in Kerinia than any other town from Lefkosia. I am not trying to change your views by this but just simply expressing what will happen in Cyprus in ten years or so years. Whether a solution or not. Once you begin to have teriary education exchange in the so called other side the more the social domain in cyprus will take place and more social interaction will occur. And as much as I do not value a class based society the each class with its own structures will enhance relations. For example if you love the symphony and you know that a great artist from the Turkish community is perfrming are you not going to travel to Kyrnia to hear them perform? I doubt it. if you really love the balet and its is your country an hour and a half away will you not go?

You are obviously not aware that the number of TC children in education in the south are only a handful and those will not have a great impact on the population of the north. We have interaction now what has changed only a hardening of views in fact we have gone backwards not forwards, the "RoC" have to take drastic measure if they want to win anyone over their current policies will never pay dividends and the chasm will get wider, that's how I see the future. Although your intentions are admirable they will not work under the current climate.

[humanist]

Oh well, I guess if we are both in the smae space at the same time we will have a discussion on the matter and see what will happen.

[Eric dayi]

Some times some peoples need help.

You are damn right there, miltiades and his "Cypriot" pals, the poor lost souls, can use all the help they can get. Do you know a shrink who can help them?

Oops sorry I was talking about you.
I am sorry you make mistake.

No, I didn't make a mistake, I just agreed with you that some people do need
help and named those who do and asked your help in finding a shrink for them.

You wake me up. What you want? What you need sink for?

Sorry, didn't know your knowledge of the English language was so bad.

[Viewpoint]

Oh well, I guess if we are both in the smae space at the same time we will have a discussion on the matter and see what will happen.

Not to sure what you mean?