Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

You would be surprised at what Cypriots can do once they put their minds to it. One of the reasons why mainland Greeks are not so fund of us!

[Nikitas]

fond not fund, my typing is all buggered up since i started posting on this forum

[Viewpoint]

You are probably right and to be honest I do not want to br grouped with you either, but the fact that both my parents were born and raised here, plus living here for the past 15 years gives me a few rights, not in the "RoC" as I do not want them but in the TRNC my home, where I belong and feel safe.

Just a quick question VP... I'm pretty certain that the RoC will sooner or later extend its rightful authority across all four corners of Cyprus so where will you go in that event? Back to the UK or Turkey?

First choice UK but my wife prefers Turkey, If we were ever to have to accept GC domination where we woudl be just another minority under GC rule I would leave the next day, so when you extend your power to the TRNC I will leave, now you can work harder to achieve your GC state spread all over the island.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint, and others in this forum, come back time and again to some phrases that are keys to their attitude- feel safe is one, belong is the other one. However much we might argue, until we understand the meaning these phrases have for Turkish Cypriots we are not getting anywhere.

Obviously from our (GC) point of view it is natural to exclaim "you are safe, of course you belong here" and just as naturally they will not believe us.

A person who PERCEIVES danger will not believe anyone's assurances he is safe. The only assurance is his direct experience of safety. A person who feels alienated will not accept assurances of being part of the group, they will believe it when they see it.

One major part of the Cyprus problem then is how to make people feel safe and feel they righfully belong, and that is by letting them EXPERIENCE safety and a sense of belonging. No matter how much right is on our side over the 1974 invasion, I do no believe it is possible to reverse attitudes unless these PERCEPTIONS are dealt with. Logical discourse is not going to reverse an emotional state that has been instilled over two generations.

And because these reversals of attitude can only be brought about by the most powerful player in the game, and in this regard the most powerful player is the Republic of Cyprus and not Turkey, it is the Republic that should take active steps to reverse the PERCEPTION. And I capitalise the word because it is something which, whether justified or not, has an effect here and now for many Turkish Cypriots.

It sounds ironic to say that that Turkish Cypriots on whose behalf Turkey invaded with such ferocity are the party in fear, but it is in the end a state of mind which is prevalent and real. From what I have seen in the posts of this forum it is a state of mind reinforced often at every level, from family chats, schools, literature, media etc. It will take a very bold and imaginative initiative to change the perception. However, once that changes the rest will follow.

A caveat to VP, no I dont mean by change that you will become a fanatic supporter of Enosis (joking!). I mean that you will not have any doubts about your safety and sense of belonging in Cyprus.

Great post, but near enough impossible task for the "RoC" as this is not what they wish to achieve or otherwise they woudl have taken more steps in that direction since the borders opened.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint, and others in this forum, come back time and again to some phrases that are keys to their attitude- feel safe is one, belong is the other one. However much we might argue, until we understand the meaning these phrases have for Turkish Cypriots we are not getting anywhere.

Obviously from our (GC) point of view it is natural to exclaim "you are safe, of course you belong here" and just as naturally they will not believe us.

A person who PERCEIVES danger will not believe anyone's assurances he is safe. The only assurance is his direct experience of safety. A person who feels alienated will not accept assurances of being part of the group, they will believe it when they see it.

One major part of the Cyprus problem then is how to make people feel safe and feel they righfully belong, and that is by letting them EXPERIENCE safety and a sense of belonging. No matter how much right is on our side over the 1974 invasion, I do no believe it is possible to reverse attitudes unless these PERCEPTIONS are dealt with. Logical discourse is not going to reverse an emotional state that has been instilled over two generations.

And because these reversals of attitude can only be brought about by the most powerful player in the game, and in this regard the most powerful player is the Republic of Cyprus and not Turkey, it is the Republic that should take active steps to reverse the PERCEPTION. And I capitalise the word because it is something which, whether justified or not, has an effect here and now for many Turkish Cypriots.

It sounds ironic to say that that Turkish Cypriots on whose behalf Turkey invaded with such ferocity are the party in fear, but it is in the end a state of mind which is prevalent and real. From what I have seen in the posts of this forum it is a state of mind reinforced often at every level, from family chats, schools, literature, media etc. It will take a very bold and imaginative initiative to change the perception. However, once that changes the rest will follow.

A caveat to VP, no I dont mean by change that you will become a fanatic supporter of Enosis (joking!). I mean that you will not have any doubts about your safety and sense of belonging in Cyprus.

Nikitas you sound like you're trying to pacify and reassure a frightened child.

The TCs have played this game for too long. Pathetic creatures

It is not us that should be reassuring them it's safe to live in our country. They have to reassure us (GCs) that they are not going to mess up for us again!

Proves my point time and time again, thank you.

[Nikitas]

VP,

In your last response I detect a hint of something that Rauf Denktash and Mr Talat have mentioned too, that in a non separated society the Greek Cypriots would dominate not only by numbers but by some mysterious innate ability in business and finance. Where does this innate gift come from they did not say, and it is a mystery considering that all of us Cypriots were ground tilling peasants not so long ago. This is an unnecessarily defeatist attitude.

[Viewpoint]

VP,

In your last response I detect a hint of something that Rauf Denktash and Mr Talat have mentioned too, that in a non separated society the Greek Cypriots would dominate not only by numbers but by some mysterious innate ability in business and finance. Where does this innate gift come from they did not say, and it is a mystery considering that all of us Cypriots were ground tilling peasants not so long ago. This is an unnecessarily defeatist attitude.

The 1963 to 1974 period was bad times for Tcs not just the murders discrimination and persecution which were bad enough but in all aspects of life, we were stifled economically, socially and mentally, TCs was truly second class citizens and this was imposed on them by GCs, you could not even get permission to build a house or sell you land unless you sold it to a GCs, these acts have left a deep wounds in TC psychology and they as you say have to overcome them by not being told that everything will be OK but actually seeing and living what you claim. As they say actions speak louder than words.

[denizaksulu]

Are we supposed to believe the following source?

Source: Department of Lands and Surveys
(Refer to Annex 14 in Volume II of the "Memorandum by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cyprus" submitted to the Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Commons, 27 February 1987)


fat chance....

Not as fat as GR I hope.

Eric dayi, you leave yourself open to more criticism by claiming that GetReal is Fat. Fat he certainly is not. Unless you are referring to other ,,,

As you see our GC friends are adamant on exact and correct information, whatever that means. They are the masters of 'figures'.

[Get Real!]

Are we supposed to believe the following source?

Source: Department of Lands and Surveys
(Refer to Annex 14 in Volume II of the "Memorandum by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cyprus" submitted to the Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Commons, 27 February 1987)


fat chance....

Not as fat as GR I hope.

Eric dayi, you leave yourself open to more criticism by claiming that GetReal is Fat. Fat he certainly is not. Unless you are referring to other ,,,

As you see our GC friends are adamant on exact and correct information, whatever that means. They are the masters of 'figures'.

When I first joined there I introduced myself as a fat, rich, greedy, gavour for a laugh and they just went haywire!

[KibrisliTurk]

VP,

In your last response I detect a hint of something that Rauf Denktash and Mr Talat have mentioned too, that in a non separated society the Greek Cypriots would dominate not only by numbers but by some mysterious innate ability in business and finance. Where does this innate gift come from they did not say, and it is a mystery considering that all of us Cypriots were ground tilling peasants not so long ago. This is an unnecessarily defeatist attitude.

The 1963 to 1974 period was bad times for Tcs not just the murders discrimination and persecution which were bad enough but in all aspects of life, we were stifled economically, socially and mentally, TCs was truly second class citizens and this was imposed on them by GCs, you could not even get permission to build a house or sell you land unless you sold it to a GCs, these acts have left a deep wounds in TC psychology and they as you say have to overcome them by not being told that everything will be OK but actually seeing and living what you claim. As they say actions speak louder than words.

Yes viewpoint. The makarios regime made sure we were reduced to zibillik as a community. Our people were murdered, our homes looted and the Greeks had the nerve to tell us whats gained through blood is not given back in regards to our houses.
We will never forget the injustices by the Greek government and we will never trust them. We cannot live together with the Greek Cypriots.