Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Are you a bit anarchist like MicAtCyp too?

Always

I didn't say that the state should oppress anybody. Stopping some people from braking up the country is not oppression, is protecting the interests of the population of the country as a whole. I mean if group X decides that wants independence and the part of country they want includes your home and your whole property, wouldn't you expect the state to protect you?

If they use non violent means to try and achieve their independance I would have no problem with that. I might even join em. Striking, refusing to pay taxes, demonstrations and any other form of passive resitance should not warrant the state using violence against them to 'keep the country united'. If the state can not keep the country united without the use of violence itself then its not worth keeping togeather. That's my view. Please bear in mind this is all in response to your "I know most countries consider any kind of attempt to brake up the country as illegal." (and not in realtion to the Cyprus situation)
I do not consider _any_ attempt to break up the state as illegal. Thats my point. Any attempt that does not use violence should be 'allowed'. Any attempt that uses violence then the sate should take action against it.

[metecyp]

Maybe GCs acted in a criminal way for 11 years, but TCs have acting in a criminal way for 30 years. So why should GCs be punished and TCs get rewarded? The same way you do not accept to go "further back" I do not accept either.

Your side did not accept the RoC as it was, your side wanted to change it in 1963, your side opressed TCs for 11 years, and as if all this wasn't enough, members of your community organized the coup to declare Enosis. We're in the mess today mainly because of your side's faults. If your side accepted what Makarios signed in 1959, we wouldn't have any problems.

It's obvious that the protections in the RoC were not enough to protect TCs from being excluded from the decision-making. Therefore, next solution will have no be stronger than the RoC, it has to further strengthen the TC participation so they cannot be excluded again for another 40 years.

So it's not about punishing GCs or TCs, it's about making sure that the past does not repeat itself. You think that we're stuck up in the past but you (GCs) don't show any mentality change since 1960s. We still hear the same basic arguments (TCs are 18% minority, TCs have excessive privileges in the RoC, etc.) over and over. So our claims are justified not only by the past but by the present as well.

I do not consider _any_ attempt to break up the state as illegal. Thats my point. Any attempt that does not use violence should be 'allowed'. Any attempt that uses violence then the sate should take action against it.

Do you like Gandhi by any chance?

[erolz]

Do you like Gandhi by any chance?

Like does not even come close. Now a Mahatma Gahndi street naming proposal would get me interested in 'renaming' Cyprus' roads I not the kinda of person that goes in for 'idol worship' but if I was he would be my choice. He showed us how to be strong without having to hurt others. I have few 'heros' but Gahndi would be one (Einstein and Noam Chomsky would probably complete my personal list)

[metecyp]

He showed us how to be strong without having to hurt others. I have few 'heros' but Gahndi would be one (Einstein and Noam Chomsky would probably complete my personal list)

I took a course 2 years ago named "Gandhi and Philosophy" and that's when I got really interested in non-violence and I can sense the same philosophy in your posts, that's why I asked.

[Piratis]

Your side did not accept the RoC as it was, your side wanted to change it in 1963, your side oppressed TCs for 11 years, and as if all this wasn't enough, members of your community organized the coup to declare Enosis. We're in the mess today mainly because of your side's faults. If your side accepted what Makarios signed in 1959, we wouldn't have any problems.

Here we go again, blaming everything on us, so you will gain on our loss. I said several times that in any way you take it: Who harmed the other the most, who harmed the other for the longest time, who started it first etc, in all cases the Turks come first by far. So stop trying to present yourselves as the virgin Mary.

If you think that those 11 years justify you asking for more than what you had in 1960, then I am sure the 30 years of occupation would also justify if I am asking for me than 1960. The result is that we are getting further apart.
Maybe you believe that you should always be the ones taking and we the ones giving, but this is not the case.

As far as Gandhi goes, I don't think he would give cheap excuses in order to justify crimes and the violations of human rights of others. The theories are good, but it would be much better if you practiced even half of what you preach.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

So stop trying to present yourselves as the virgin Mary.

Didnt she have a virgin birth, maybe Ghandi would say have one of those and clean the slate everyone stays put, no more arguements,no more accusations no more claims, just think of it as a fresh start, a new begining
"A VIRGIN BIRTH".

If we did this would everyone still want to be reunited under one roof????or would division be a more attractive proposition?????

[Piratis]

If we did this would everyone still want to be reunited under one roof????or would division be a more attractive proposition?????

More attractive for whom? The 18% that grabbed the 36%? How about if the land you occupied was not double your population, but half of it (9%). Would it still be attractive proposition?

[Viewpoint]

I take that as no then Piratis

[brother]

So where we going with this thread, at one point it was interesting until we started to go over old ground again, as for my dear friend piratis, you keep making allegations that tc want a disguised partition, these claims of yours are unfounded and do not mean anything, how about tassos wanting partition which he is trying to achieve through his non-effective or non-existant ideas for solution that has the whole world waiting.

[Piratis]

you keep making allegations that tc want a disguised partition, these claims of yours are unfounded and do not mean anything

Unfounded? Come on brother, the leadership of TCs have been trying for partition for 40 years now. After the invasion they pretend that they have a separate state. What is the aim of this? unity? After 30 years the only plan that they accepted was a partition plan. Aren't these enough evidence to come to the conclusion that the majority of TCs will not accept anything apart from partition?