Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

I think that we would have our human rights etc. but as we all know nepotism is rife in cyprus so i would imagine that we would not get many goverment jobs unless we went back to the 1960 agreements but if i was to speculate and this is based on the facts that we are and will become if the new euorpean constitution is accepted and implemented and we become the United states of Europe, then there will be comeback if we are not treated fairly i would say 100% rights accross the board imo.

[MicAtCyp]

Now you guess the percentage, because I'm not a fortune teller. I can only tell you about the highly probable to be occure events.

So Insan the only thing you can fortune tell is that you will be dominated. Fine! I already said I accept it. Read the previous posts to verify it. Now if this is your beleif you should be able to tell me percentage-wise how much this is going to deduct from your prosperity as an equal human being. 1%, 5%, 10% 100%? Make your calculatuons and come up with a number.If you are unable to come with a percentage then OK tell me your most propable events and I will help you calculate it.
Notice that Metecyp proposed that the RoC should encourage TCs to return, get their properties etc. I am sure you agree they will be dominated. Some TCs did return, and some of them are even University professors. However they are "dominated" in your opinion! Full stop.

But I understand you don't want to reply. No problem. Next please...

I WANT TO KNOW THE PERCENTAGE

Notice another thing: The Rhodian Turks were and still are about 5% (not sure of the number).The Greeks at Rhodes complain that the Turks there get preferential treatment. Government jobs they ask?Government jobs they get.Double the number of scholls compared with the Greeks?Double the number of schools they get.No presecution for unpaid taxes? No presecution they get. Almost the same with the Maronites in Cyprus.
So you fortune tell the TCs will be dominated. I fortune tell you the TCS will have preferential treatment.

[metecyp]

Notice another thing: The Rhodian Turks were and still are about 5% (not sure of the number).The Greeks at Rhodes complain that the Turks there get preferential treatment. Government jobs they ask?Government jobs they get.Double the number of scholls compared with the Greeks?Double the number of schools they get.No presecution for unpaid taxes? No presecution they get. Almost the same with the Maronites in Cyprus.
So you fortune tell the TCs will be dominated. I fortune tell you the TCS will have preferential treatment.

Do Rhodian Turks (I didn't know that there are still Turks in Rhodos but let's say you're right) have any say in issues concerning Rhodos? For example, if they want Turks from Turkey to visit Rhodos more so they can get tourism revenues, can they ask the Rhodos governer to allow Turks come to Rhodos for short-term stay without passports? What if the governer disagrees, what can the Rhodian Turks do? Nothing. This is just a hypothetical situation but it sums up the whole scenario. Rhodian Turks have no influence in decision making in Rhodos, they only depend on the goodwill of Rhodian Greeks. That's why I didn't even know that they existed!

Same goes for Maronites in Cyprus. Yes, they might get preferential treatment but do they have any say in Cyprus politics? For example, what if Maronites completely agree with the Annan plan, can they change anything in the south right now? No, they can't because they're only a minority so they have to depend the goodwill of the GC majority.

Now, back to TCs. Even a 1960 type of agreement, where TCs were carefully protected from the majority, could not protect TCs from being excluded from the decision making. Now it's 2005 and you might say such things cannot happen in a EU member country. You might be right but TCs do not want to depend on the goodwill of the GC majority anymore, just like you don't want to depend on the goodwill of Turkey.

[insan]

Some TCs did return, and some of them are even University professors. However they are "dominated" in your opinion! Full stop.

The ones that returned will be comfortable as long as they agree and accept the policy, stance, strategy, everything and version of history of present "RoC". As long as they don't go out of the line you draw for them, you'll also feel very comfortable with them and exploit the situation for propaganda purposes. Most of those people went to South for many purposes and suffered a lot because of the police abuse, discrimination and Kipe. I urge you to do a detailed researhch about them and see how they subjected to police abuse and ill treatment of administration of South. Most of them treated like spies of Turks, in early years of their lives in South.


http://www.cyprusaction.org/humanrights ... ost74.html

Post-1974 Human Rights Violations of Turkish Cypriots
There are Turkish Cypriots who reside in the South either because they opted not to become refugees in 1974 or because they returned some time in the 1980s or 1990s. There are several articles in the international press that involve violations of the human rights of these individuals. In general, stories in the Cyprus press and statements by governmental institutions, such as the police, have created a negative picture of them (e.g. often portraying them as Turkish spies). Two articles from Agence France Presse document human rights violations of Turkish Cypriots living in the South. The first deals with police brutality in an incident that took place in 1995iv and the second deals with the notorious law that prohibited any civil intermarriage between a Turkish Cypriot and a third personv. (See also the case of Kemal Selim Vs the republic of Cyprus by Olga Demetriou). Given the small size of this community and its positive contribution to the reconciliation process, it is a shame that it has had to face so many problems. Its position has improved rapidly since the 1990s. However, one major issue to be resolved is the return of the properties of Turkish Cypriots willing to resettle in the South. The Cyprus Action Network supports the return of properties of all permanently resettling Turkish Cypriots within a reasonable timeframe and encourages relevant decisions which have been recently taken on this issue.

[-mikkie2-]

Do Rhodian Turks (I didn't know that there are still Turks in Rhodos but let's say you're right) have any say in issues concerning Rhodos? For example, if they want Turks from Turkey to visit Rhodos more so they can get tourism revenues, can they ask the Rhodos governer to allow Turks come to Rhodos for short-term stay without passports? What if the governer disagrees, what can the Rhodian Turks do? Nothing. This is just a hypothetical situation but it sums up the whole scenario. Rhodian Turks have no influence in decision making in Rhodos, they only depend on the goodwill of Rhodian Greeks. That's why I didn't even know that they existed!

Metecyp

Please! This is preposterous! Allow foreign nationals to come to Rhodes on a short term stay without passports? What kind of example is this? It like saying Pakistanis in England should be allowed to have Pakistanis from Pakistan to come into the country without passports! Lets be sensible here.

You are suggesting that Rhodian Turks have no rights in Rhodes? They have just as much rights as any other Rhodian, or Greek for that matter. What MicAtCyp is pointing out is that the Rhodian Turks benefit from POSITIVE discrimination at many levels. Remeber this positive discrimination argument you had a while back? Something that you advocate I believe and you used the US as an example.

[MicAtCyp]

[quote="Brother"] then there will be comeback if we are not treated fairly i would say 100% rights accross the board imo.

Aferin sana/ bravo sou/ congratulations re brother. At least one honest person in this forum which does not try to hide behind words and fantasies.

I couldn’t agree more. Of course some chauvinists will try to deprive you government jobs. After one or two of them are sued however and they eventually lose their own jobs in the Government, I wonder how many of them will be brave enough to continue.

Besides notice the majority of GCs today are very sympathetic towards the TCs. Once they hear such discriminations, be sure the media, the press, the NGOs will make a hell lot of fuss. Today it is not the 60s my friends. Today when one farts at Paphos the modern media can tell us immediately. In the 50s people were killed in the next village and we had no idea about it. We would be lucky to even hear that somewhere on the planet of Cyprus there were "troubles"!!!!

[Piratis]

All you need to do is to notice how Maronites and Armenians are treated and they are 18 times less than the TCs, with much less extra rights compared with TCs, and without a "motherland" of 60 million on their support sitting right on top of us.

The claim that today, in 2005 when Cyprus is an EU, TCs will be mistreated in any way is a very cheap excuse that not even the ones that say such excuse really believe in it.

As I said before, what some TCs are actually asking for is independence (= partition, standard or disguised). They know that such thing is illegal, so they are simply trying to camouflage their demands now. The example of Metecyp, that according to him the 5% of Turks in Rhodes should be able to decide by itself the foreign relations of the whole country proves this.

[erolz]

All you need to do is to notice how Maronites and Armenians are treated and they are 18 times less than the TCs, with much less extra rights compared with TCs, and without a "motherland" of 60 million on their support sitting right on top of us.

Did maronites block your aspriations for ENOSIS. Did they kill and get killed by GC. Did their motherland intervene in Cyprus. Have they ever threaten GC aspirations for a totaly GC controlled Cyprus?

The claim that today, in 2005 when Cyprus is an EU, TCs will be mistreated in any way is a very cheap excuse that not even the ones that say such excuse really believe in it.

I am sorry Piratis but I really sincerely wish I could say that I believe that there is no possibility what so ever that TC living as a politcal minority in a GC controlled Cyprus would not be discriminated against or mistreated in any way but in all honesty I can not say this (equally I do not say they definately would be - just that it is in the realms of possibility). I could also argue that by denying us as a community 'equal' status is a form of mistreatment - but let's not go there - we have had that discussion many times in many threads already. So I am not arguing that

Certainly the claim of this fear can be used for political advantaged, but the disimising of it as undeniably and undoubtedly the case is not really any different from using a non sincere claim of such concerns for political advantage.

As I said before, what some TCs are actually asking for is independence (= partition, standard or disguised). They know that such thing is illegal, so they are simply trying to camouflage their demands now.

This is probably just symantics but there is nothing illegal in asking for a seperate state. There is nothing illegal in agreeing a seperate state. I can accept the illegailtes of the current status quo - but the above seems to say that the very idea of a seperate state is illegal (which I am sure is not what you mean - given your statements about an agreed division being better than a disguised one).

[Piratis]

Certainly the claim of this fear can be used for political advantaged, but the disimising of it as undeniably and undoubtedly the case is not really any different from using a non sincere claim of such concerns for political advantage.

Would you personally have any fears today if everything returned according to the 1960 agreements?

This is probably just symantics but there is nothing illegal in asking for a seperate state.

Maybe I am willing to discuss such case if it proves to be the "least bad" of bad feasible options. However this doesn't mean is legal. I know most countries consider any kind of attempt to brake up the country as illegal.

[insan]

At least one honest person in this forum which does not try to hide behind words and fantasies.

There's nothing to surprise. The ones who fits your needs are the best others are hiding behind the words and fantasies.

I couldn’t agree more. Of course some chauvinists will try to deprive you government jobs. After one or two of them are sued however and they eventually lose their own jobs in the Government, I wonder how many of them will be brave enough to continue.

Predictions form paunch. You couldn't of course. As long as it suits you. Otherwise, all others are hiding behind the words and fantasies.