Cyprus-Forum.com

[iceman]

Greek joke- man goes to the registry office to change his name. Clerk asks him his current name, he responds: Yannis Malakas. And his choice for his new name? Giorgos Malakas.

Must admit thats a good joke...Nice1 Nikitas.

[Murataga]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

So let me get this straight... You speak Greek, your names are Greek and there is no problem for you to have Greek surnames. We speak Turkish, we have Turkish names and it is a problem that we drop the backwarded Ottoman style of giving ourselves Turkish surnnames and start doing it in a way that is being done in modern soceities ?

"Kalyoncu" family is as TC as it gets; it was their lakap and it became their surname (without anything being forced). I can tell you quite easily that there are at least 20-30 families out of a population of 70 million in Turkey that has a last name "Kalyoncu". How many Papadopoulos`es would you say there are in Greece?

No you didn't get it straight

a)Only in fascist regimes you are oblidged to change your surname. Like I said, and like Nikitas said, (but you haven't even noticed) the GCs were following exactly the same tactic as the TCs i.e taking their fathers name as surname.That STOPPED among GCs without anyone forcing them to do so. This is HOW DEMOCRACY FUNCTIONS, not like the Neo-Kemalists use to by forcing their bright ideas on people.

b)The majority of our Greek surnames are very distinctive from mainland Greeks. There is absolutely nobody in Cyprus with Surname like Katsakis, Angavanakis,Beldekas,Melonakos etc., so by just hearing such surnames I already know where they are NOT Cypriots.

c)Although you claimed the new system was an improvement, what it really was, it was a mess up to blur the issue of who is a settler and who is a TC. Even your recent census is so messy that cannot tell who is an original TC and who is not.

Your whole response is a testimony that I got it straight and you are very upset because I did so - I like that

a)Only in fascist regimes you are oblidged to change your surname. Like I said, and like Nikitas said, (but you haven't even noticed) the GCs were following exactly the same tactic as the TCs i.e taking their fathers name as surname.That STOPPED among GCs without anyone forcing them to do so. This is HOW DEMOCRACY FUNCTIONS, not like the Neo-Kemalists use to by forcing their bright ideas on people.

I do not know how it stopped for you but unless your government regulated the process I hardly believe everyone got up one morning and telepathically decided to stop it. And that is exactly how it happened for us. I am sure you wish so hard that things were forced but I know you wish many other things upon on us aswell so let`s not go down that aisle

b)The majority of our Greek surnames are very distinctive from mainland Greeks. There is absolutely nobody in Cyprus with Surname like Katsakis, Angavanakis,Beldekas,Melonakos etc., so by just hearing such surnames I already know where they are NOT Cypriots.

Some are and some aren`t. How do you explain your president`s last name ? Can we suprised that they are simlar/same given that your language and names are essentially the same? Additionally, there are distinctions among our last names aswell with Turkey. But that is a new topic on its own.

c)Although you claimed the new system was an improvement, what it really was, it was a mess up to blur the issue of who is a settler and who is a TC. Even your recent census is so messy that cannot tell who is an original TC and who is not.

Of course it was an improvement and you have no counter-arguement that it isn`t. If you want to make a statement about the settlers try to come up with something worth an answer where you explicitly acknowledge that you are one at the end of the day aswell.

[Sotos]

The most common Cypriot name-surname combinations is Haralambos Haralambous, Ioannis Ioannou, Yiorgos Yeorgiou and similar.

[Murataga]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

Pyro....The system is soooo perfect that I cannot trace my old school friends any more..Just to give you a relevant example; I had no idea that Ahmet An was my old school friend Ahmet Cavit (Djavit as some spell it on this forum)...It took me years to make the connection...Those who pretend that this is just an incidental procedure are only fooling themselves...They know damn well it is all part of the "Turkification" of the TCs...Now we can look forward to the "Islamisation" of the TCs as well...But what is in a name or a faith, right?????

Bir-
1) He is registered as Ahmet Cavit An (I may be mistaken so feel free to contact him and correct me)
2) I would be very interested to know if he was forced into anything regarding his name ?
3) In what language was the TCs` surnames prior to your claims ?
4) Could you give specific names of people who refused or did not like their last name and yet was forced to their current one ?
5) Would you have liked us to stick with the Ottoman way of giving ourselves lastnames ?

Do you read anyone's post or you only read yours???
Mr-from-ng answered your question before. Here you go, I just know someone.

I am talking about and you are claiming enforcing surnames as part of an assimilation process. Perhaps you should be the one reading his post more carefully. He said he wasn`t given the exact name he wanted because someone else had already taken it and the government was avoiding repetition (and if I read it correctly he got it with the addition of a "-ler" which is just to make it plural ) and not because of anyone`s plan of assimilation or fascism. He wasn`t denied permission because he was being forced to assimilation - which I am sure is a great inconvenience for your arguements. Is what happened to him your defintion of racism, fascism or assimilation? Hey, if so, I`ve got news for you: we also give out speeding tickets... such an oppressive regime

[Pyrpolizer]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

So let me get this straight... You speak Greek, your names are Greek and there is no problem for you to have Greek surnames. We speak Turkish, we have Turkish names and it is a problem that we drop the backwarded Ottoman style of giving ourselves Turkish surnnames and start doing it in a way that is being done in modern soceities ?

"Kalyoncu" family is as TC as it gets; it was their lakap and it became their surname (without anything being forced). I can tell you quite easily that there are at least 20-30 families out of a population of 70 million in Turkey that has a last name "Kalyoncu". How many Papadopoulos`es would you say there are in Greece?

No you didn't get it straight

a)Only in fascist regimes you are oblidged to change your surname. Like I said, and like Nikitas said, (but you haven't even noticed) the GCs were following exactly the same tactic as the TCs i.e taking their fathers name as surname.That STOPPED among GCs without anyone forcing them to do so. This is HOW DEMOCRACY FUNCTIONS, not like the Neo-Kemalists use to by forcing their bright ideas on people.

b)The majority of our Greek surnames are very distinctive from mainland Greeks. There is absolutely nobody in Cyprus with Surname like Katsakis, Angavanakis,Beldekas,Melonakos etc., so by just hearing such surnames I already know where they are NOT Cypriots.

c)Although you claimed the new system was an improvement, what it really was, it was a mess up to blur the issue of who is a settler and who is a TC. Even your recent census is so messy that cannot tell who is an original TC and who is not.

Your whole response is a testimony that I got it straight and you are very upset because I did so - I like that

Actually my tone was a reaction to your total ERROR. I don't like talking with people who understand zilch...

a)Only in fascist regimes you are oblidged to change your surname. Like I said, and like Nikitas said, (but you haven't even noticed) the GCs were following exactly the same tactic as the TCs i.e taking their fathers name as surname.That STOPPED among GCs without anyone forcing them to do so. This is HOW DEMOCRACY FUNCTIONS, not like the Neo-Kemalists use to by forcing their bright ideas on people.

I do not know how it stopped for you but unless your government regulated the process I hardly believe everyone got up one morning and telepathically decided to stop it. And that is exactly how it happened for us. I am sure you wish so hard that things were forced but I know you wish many other things upon on us aswell so let`s not go down that aisle

it stopped by itself, when people realised the whole world uses i) first name, ii)fathers name, and iii) family name/surname.It stopped because of our involvement with the outside world with Universities abroad etc. So no it did not happen from one day to another, this is how things happen in Democratic environments.

b)The majority of our Greek surnames are very distinctive from mainland Greeks. There is absolutely nobody in Cyprus with Surname like Katsakis, Angavanakis,Beldekas,Melonakos etc., so by just hearing such surnames I already know where they are NOT Cypriots.

Some are and some aren`t. How do you explain your president`s last name ? Can we suprised that they are simlar/same given that your language and names are essentially the same? Additionally, there are distinctions among our last names aswell with Turkey. But that is a new topic on its own.

I said the MAJORITY. Do you have problem understanding what majority means?

c)Although you claimed the new system was an improvement, what it really was, it was a mess up to blur the issue of who is a settler and who is a TC. Even your recent census is so messy that cannot tell who is an original TC and who is not.

Of course it was an improvement and you have no counter-arguement that it isn`t. If you want to make a statement about the settlers try to come up with something worth an answer where you explicitly acknowledge that you are one at the end of the day aswell.



I and others already pointed you the wrongs of this "improvement" that faded away a lot of it's REAL value.

[Pyrpolizer]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

Pyro....The system is soooo perfect that I cannot trace my old school friends any more..Just to give you a relevant example; I had no idea that Ahmet An was my old school friend Ahmet Cavit (Djavit as some spell it on this forum)...It took me years to make the connection...Those who pretend that this is just an incidental procedure are only fooling themselves...They know damn well it is all part of the "Turkification" of the TCs...Now we can look forward to the "Islamisation" of the TCs as well...But what is in a name or a faith, right?????

Bir-
1) He is registered as Ahmet Cavit An (I may be mistaken so feel free to contact him and correct me)
2) I would be very interested to know if he was forced into anything regarding his name ?
3) In what language was the TCs` surnames prior to your claims ?
4) Could you give specific names of people who refused or did not like their last name and yet was forced to their current one ?
5) Would you have liked us to stick with the Ottoman way of giving ourselves lastnames ?

Do you read anyone's post or you only read yours???
Mr-from-ng answered your question before. Here you go, I just know someone.

I am talking about and you are claiming enforcing surnames as part of an assimilation process.

I was answering specifically to your question No4. It was obvious from what it followed that you understood that very well, but as usual you can't avoid playing silly sophistry games in your replies.

Perhaps you should be the one reading his post more carefully. He said he wasn`t given the exact name he wanted because someone else had already taken it and the government was avoiding repetition (and if I read it correctly he got it with the addition of a "-ler" which is just to make it plural ) and not because of anyone`s plan of assimilation or fascism.

Stop the manipulations and misinterpretations!
He said HIS REAL SURNAME WAS NOT ACCEPTED, BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE WITH POWER REGISTERED IT FOR HIMSELF. Do you realise what it means to have your REAL SURNAME being unacceptable??? Do you realise what it means having to add grammatical suffices to your surname? Can you measure the insult? Btw how many Smiths are there in the whole British world, what is the problem, and why should I have a distinctive name. What it matters today IS NOT YOUR NAME but YOUR NUMBER!!!. , Your ID number hich in the EU is the same as your passport number etc.So man there's still a long way for "fascist" improvements waiting for you.

He wasn`t denied permission because he was being forced to assimilation - which I am sure is a great inconvenience for your arguements.

Again you may discuss Bir's arguments with Bir not with me. First understand what I said which is quite distinctive from what Bir said then come discuss it with me.

Is what happened to him your defintion of racism, fascism or assimilation?

I give you his own answer. Hopefully you will digest it eventually.After you read it tell me if he feels he is been treated democratically or NOT.
Here it is:
"I have my "Kimlik" that carries this name but I never use it in my day to day life in Cyprus, I do all my official work with my British passport which carries my original name.

I hope it is one day abolished and everybody use their original names again."

Hey, if so, I`ve got news for you: we also give out speeding tickets... such an oppressive regime

Precicely so. Here some more news for you. The RoC police arrests those who drive drunk.

[Pyrpolizer]

Imagine the Tcs were living in the RoC and we had such a law passing enforcing the TCs to abandon their "Ottoman Tradition". Would the likes of Murataga still claim with such fanatic passion it was an "improvement"????

[Murataga]

Imagine the Tcs were living in the RoC and we had such a law passing enforcing the TCs to abandon their "Ottoman Tradition". Would the likes of Murataga still claim with such fanatic passion it was an "improvement"????

You just declared our government to be a fascist one because they did not allow repeptition of surnames when they were regulting the process so I guess anything is possible on your terms

[Pyrpolizer]

Your pseudo-government

[Murataga]

Your pseudo-government

A one that is real enough to keep the likes of you on the other side for protecting us