Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

Pyro....The system is soooo perfect that I cannot trace my old school friends any more..Just to give you a relevant example; I had no idea that Ahmet An was my old school friend Ahmet Cavit (Djavit as some spell it on this forum)...It took me years to make the connection...Those who pretend that this is just an incidental procedure are only fooling themselves...They know damn well it is all part of the "Turkification" of the TCs...Now we can look forward to the "Islamisation" of the TCs as well...But what is in a name or a faith, right?????

Bir-
1) He is registered as Ahmet Cavit An (I may be mistaken so feel free to contact him and correct me)
2) I would be very interested to know if he was forced into anything regarding his name ?
3) In what language was the TCs` surnames prior to your claims ?
4) Could you give specific names of people who refused or did not like their last name and yet was forced to their current one ?
5) Would you have liked us to stick with the Ottoman way of giving ourselves lastnames ?

[denizaksulu]

Sounds like Kalyoncu (non Cypriot name) is throwing a lot of unrelated crap on the wall, to see what will stick and what doesn't.

"He said that the Greek Cypriot Side which had secured unilateral European Union membership was playing for time"

Has anyone asked this person, just what would be the reason for the RoC to be "playing for time".

"Playing for time" for what purpose exactly.??

Halil, do any of you working at "Bayrak" ask questions when politicians make statements, or do you just keep quiet.

I want some answers Halil.

Hello Kikapu; hope all is goign well. Something interesting in your post caught my eye there... What is by your definition a "Cypriot name" ? No offense, just curios.

Nice to hear from you to Murataga,

Any Turkish Cypriot names before 1974 is what I consider to be "Cypriot Names". They were quite distinct from the names from Turkey, so now, I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two.

I hope I was able to explain myself clearly.

I am afraid you have confused me even more. In your previos post you claimed a name to be non-Cypriot (which requires that you know or have a definition of what a "Cypriot name" actually is), but now you are saying:

I can't tell who is actually a TC and who is a Turk from Turkey from just by their names anymore, because I can't separate the Two

If you don`t know what a Cypriot name is or cant distinguish it, than how were you able to claim that the guy`s name is non-Cypriot?

Yes, I can see where I have got you confused Murataga. Let me try again.

The names that does not sound "Cypriot", are the same names that sound like the ones from Turkey for Turks. When the TC's were forced to adopt "new" Family names (surname) few years ago, it appears they have adopted names that were not traditional names that has been in Cyprus pre 1974. The names they have adopted, is very similar if not same as the names you will find in Turkey, or very much close in style and sounding. This makes it very difficult to distinguish a Turk from a TC when only reading their names. In another words, I doubt very much that, if one were to open a "TRNC" telephone book and read all the surnames of all those that are listed, that you would find too many of these names in another telephone book that was issued before 1974.

I hate to stir things up between forum members, let alone of the the Turkish speaking variety, but could either of you give ea few examples.
Are you talking about the different 'lakaps' or 'Soy adi'. The argument needs some clarification.
Thank you kardeshlerim (or is it gardashlarim?)

[BirKibrisli]

So what!!!!! So what if it is the Turkification of the TRNC/KKTC. We belong to the island and as long as there is no settlement we will call ourselves and the part of our island what ever the hell we like. We will not sit around and wait for your siege to work. It ain't gonna happen. Every way we can find to get around that siege we will do. I really don't understand how you and Kiks can just sit there and wish the worse for your people just so you can be proved right.

You failed to understand a lot of things it seems,Zan...

And the most frustrating thing for me is this: you do not understand that I take the total Turkification of the TCs to be the worse thing that can happen to them...We did not go through all that we did as TCs,and survived on our own,between 1964 and 74,to turn around and be swollowed up whole by our "saviours"...The Turkish sea is too big for us to survive in...But the Cypriot sea is just the right size.And it is also where we belong...As a large minority we can hold our own,keep our identity,and survive and prosper as Cypriots...But you are intend on jumping over the cliff into the big Turkish ocean where you will never be seen again...Don't expect me to jump after you lot...

[iceman]

In the old system people were using their fathers name as the second name to identify themselves..
So...to give an example,If the fathers name was Hasan he would most probably name his first son after his own Father,in this example Mehmet..
So the first born son would be named Mehmet Hasan,second son would be Ahmet Hasan,third son Mustafa Hasan..
Lets also keep in mind when time comes and they have their own children these three boys will use their fathers name (Hasan) as second names for their own children...considering the popularity of some names such as Mehmet,Ahmet,Hasan,Mustafa,Mahmut etc..This gets very confusing in no time,there will be plenty of double names in a town or village....
In the past this was overcomed primitiely by using either nicknames (lakap) or using the village name of the families eldest before the persons name to distinguish him from the other similar names..
There is nothing wrong with families adopting a surname to identify themselves...

[denizaksulu]

In the old system people were using their fathers name as the second name to identify themselves..
So...to give an example,If the fathers name was Hasan he would most probably name his first son after his own Father,in this example Mehmet..
So the first born son would be named Mehmet Hasan,second son would be Ahmet Hasan,third son Mustafa Hasan..
Lets also keep in mind when time comes and they have their own children these three boys will use their fathers name (Hasan) as second names for their own children...considering the popularity of some names such as Mehmet,Ahmet,Hasan,Mustafa,Mahmut etc..This gets very confusing in no time,there will be plenty of double names in a town or village....
In the past this was overcomed primitiely by using either nicknames (lakap) or using the village name of the families eldest before the persons name to distinguish him from the other similar names..
There is nothing wrong with families adopting a surname to identify themselves...

Absolutely, and the surnames began well before 1974.

[Pyrpolizer]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

Pyro....The system is soooo perfect that I cannot trace my old school friends any more..Just to give you a relevant example; I had no idea that Ahmet An was my old school friend Ahmet Cavit (Djavit as some spell it on this forum)...It took me years to make the connection...Those who pretend that this is just an incidental procedure are only fooling themselves...They know damn well it is all part of the "Turkification" of the TCs...Now we can look forward to the "Islamisation" of the TCs as well...But what is in a name or a faith, right?????

So what!!!!! So what if it is the Turkification of the TRNC/KKTC. We belong to the island and as long as there is no settlement we will call ourselves and the part of our island what ever the hell we like. We will not sit around and wait for your siege to work. It ain't gonna happen. Every way we can find to get around that siege we will do. I really don't understand how you and Kiks can just sit there and wish the worse for your people just so you can be proved right.


Why was the settlement that Makarios was ready to sign never signed????? Tell me that and stop all this which hunt shit....The name change was for many reasons and what tthey were for is up to us and nothing to do with you just like we have no say in the "RoC".

You have no right calling any part of my own country TRashNcan/ KickKickTheCarnival and you have no right to Turkify it either.

[Pyrpolizer]

:roll:

The worst thing is that I even know GCs who don't trust those two...but that doesn't stop them giving them praise on the forum for their stance on the Cyprob.

Then how do I consider you within the same group as those two?

[bigOz]

The only reason the TRNC might be Turkified would probably be the past efforts in trying to Greekify or turn the island into a Greek island (which some participants in this forum recently argued for anyway).

So what I say IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO! By refusing to allow TCs equal political and economic rights the GCs have become the biggest supporters of any "Turkification" that may be going on! Furthermore, sice TCs see themselves as Cypriots first and ethnic Turks next, I see no reason for any Turkification because they never gave up their ethnic identity anyway...

Must go now talk to you tomorrow!

[Pyrpolizer]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

So let me get this straight... You speak Greek, your names are Greek and there is no problem for you to have Greek surnames. We speak Turkish, we have Turkish names and it is a problem that we drop the backwarded Ottoman style of giving ourselves Turkish surnnames and start doing it in a way that is being done in modern soceities ?

"Kalyoncu" family is as TC as it gets; it was their lakap and it became their surname (without anything being forced). I can tell you quite easily that there are at least 20-30 families out of a population of 70 million in Turkey that has a last name "Kalyoncu". How many Papadopoulos`es would you say there are in Greece?

No you didn't get it straight

a)Only in fascist regimes you are oblidged to change your surname. Like I said, and like Nikitas said, (but you haven't even noticed) the GCs were following exactly the same tactic as the TCs i.e taking their fathers name as surname.That STOPPED among GCs without anyone forcing them to do so. This is HOW DEMOCRACY FUNCTIONS, not like the Neo-Kemalists use to by forcing their bright ideas on people.

b)The majority of our Greek surnames are very distinctive from mainland Greeks. There is absolutely nobody in Cyprus with Surname like Katsakis, Angavanakis,Beldekas,Melonakos etc., so by just hearing such surnames I already know where they are NOT Cypriots.

c)Although you claimed the new system was an improvement, what it really was, it was a mess up to blur the issue of who is a settler and who is a TC. Even your recent census is so messy that cannot tell who is an original TC and who is not.

[Pyrpolizer]

kikapu - many of us do actually. Our surname tradition was quite primitive and lacked any true systematic. It was an oriental structure accustomed from the Ottomans: you either got the name of your father as surname (which means a new surname for essentially every generation making it extremely difficult to keep a record for civil purposes) or your "lakap" (title/reputation/job) was used. I would confidently say "Kalyoncu" was a lakap of his family who perhaps was associated with the business: "Kalyoncu" means "one who uses/rides/in the business of Kalyon" and "Kalyon" is a type of ship that was widely used by the Ottomans and other Mediaterranean empires prior to the 19-18th century (see Galeon).

Yeah right! And by doing that you developed such a perfect system, that you can not tell for sure how many settlers and how many real TCs you have. Isn't that what you recent census proved beyond any doubt?

Pyro....The system is soooo perfect that I cannot trace my old school friends any more..Just to give you a relevant example; I had no idea that Ahmet An was my old school friend Ahmet Cavit (Djavit as some spell it on this forum)...It took me years to make the connection...Those who pretend that this is just an incidental procedure are only fooling themselves...They know damn well it is all part of the "Turkification" of the TCs...Now we can look forward to the "Islamisation" of the TCs as well...But what is in a name or a faith, right?????

Bir-
1) He is registered as Ahmet Cavit An (I may be mistaken so feel free to contact him and correct me)
2) I would be very interested to know if he was forced into anything regarding his name ?
3) In what language was the TCs` surnames prior to your claims ?
4) Could you give specific names of people who refused or did not like their last name and yet was forced to their current one ?
5) Would you have liked us to stick with the Ottoman way of giving ourselves lastnames ?

Do you read anyone's post or you only read yours???
Mr-from-ng answered your question before. Here you go, I just know someone.